Hybrid 4x4/Off-Road Vehicle?

I have a similar problem because I do environmental consulting in difficult-to-reach areas. The solution I have is a Land Rover Discovery which I had converted to run on LPG gas, making it more fuel efficient and cutting emissions by over half. The place that sells these kits is in the UK, but there must be other places selling similar kits in other countries:
http://www.cp-components.co.uk/

Just in case Toyota is reading this...IF YOU BUILD A HYBRID LANDCRUISER, I'LL BUY ONE!!!

This topic has a lot in common with later posts in the "Hybrids are ugly" thread (early July 05), which ask why manufacturers aren't designing hybrids to target youth markets and first-time buyers.

One of the best examples is the upcoming 2007 Toyoyta FJ Cruiser (non-hybrid, due in early 2006), a "reissue" of the classic off-road vehicle of the 1950s-1980s. In their press release, Toyota clearly states that they're targeting young/first-time buyers who love the outdoors. Yet hybrid technology is not an option and, according to some trades, not planned for the next several years.

Young? Outdoors? No two words scream "hybrid" any louder. The conservation ethic of today's youth dwarfs that of previous generations- especially true when you look at kids who love the canoing, hiking, rock climbing, and on and on. And yet auto makers continue to design and price hybrids for the white collar, over-30 crowd.

I've been on a waiting list for a non-limited Highlander Hybrid for several months, but after an agonizing wait, further research, and some serious soul-searching, I'm moving to Plan B: I can buy a Prius and 2/3 of an FJ Cruiser for the price of one Highlander Hybrid, assuming I can make it till early 2006 without a 4WD. The Prius will be our everyday, around-town vehicle and the FJ will be the "mobile field lab" for my biodiversity consulting work.

It's a disappointing compromise, but until the auto makers see the link between 4WD, outdoors, young buyers, and alternative energy technology, I'll have to settle for one Hybrid and one 20-mpg workhorse.

We're looking for hybrid owners to interview for a documentary on a major cable network... and folks who own SUVs, light trucks and other big vehicles because they need them...but would buy hybrid versions if they existed.

We will be in Texas, Virginia, Seattle, Portland, New York City area and New England area. And probably California. Let me hear from you, please!

Email me back a bit about who you are, where you work, live, what you drive and why. I'll get right back to you. If you don't mind my calling, also give me your phone number. My email is and office phone is (212) 512-5729. If I am out, please let me know a good day and time to get back to you.

Many, many thanks,
Ellen Kent
Producer/Director

You're right. I wouldn't dare take my FEH through some of the stuff I used to do with my modified Toyota 4x4 truck in 4-Lo.

However, that's pretty extreme off-roading and I hardly ever used to do that (and I guess never will now).

But I do go off-roading enough in less extreme conditions where AWD and decent ground clearance is a must. I also need it in Northeast winters. So far the FEH has performed equally as well, if not better in some cases, than my Toyota.

Regarding water crossings. If it's so deep you need a snorkel, of course it won't work... neither would a normal 4x4, but I've taken mine through water over a foot deep and it's fine. The hybrids really are more "normal" in operation than many people think... especially when people worry about water (thunderstorms and even carwashes have been mentioned).

You mention regenerative braking. Well, when you use Lo in the FEH, the "engine-braking" effect IS regenerative braking. There isn't any traditional/actual engine-braking since the CVT works differently and isn't geared directly to the ICE. Then again, it doesn't really matter since if you're off-roading, fuel-efficiency really isn't such a concern.

I have been looking for a hybrid 4x4. I am currently saving for a Dodge Ram 1500 because I like to camp and hunt and need a 4x4 to get where i am going and need a fullsize truck to get all my gear there. Plus I am 6' 3", 250lbs, and these little Toyotas and Ford Rangers are just too small inside the cab for me to even want to get in.

I don't see anyone making a pickup other than the GM thing, but that is hardly a hybrid IMO.

This is a BIG market.

Maybe it won't be able to tow 7,000 lbs like a Hemi Ram, but if it can get a bed full of stuff to the middle of nowhere (like 200 miles from home), without breaking the bank from the gas, they would have a great selling point.

They don't have to be a replacement for Trailer pullers and hardcore offroading. Just general stuff most Americans do with pickups...toss it in the bed and go.

We took delivery of a Ford Escape four wheel drive hybrid last month. We have been getting just below 30 mpg and are very happy with it. Perfomance is surely adequate for us, and much better than the nine year old Explorer it replaces.
The New York Times had a recent review of the Lexus hybrid and said it was outrageous that Toyota, a supposedly green company, would sell a premium-priced hybrid with little or no performance or mileage advantage over the standard vehicle. Also, watch out for the Toyota four-wheel drive system -- apparenly, if the hybrid battery runs out of power (likely on long hauls) you will revert to a two-wheel drive system. With the Ford, you still have four-wheel drive but the engine will need to work harder. Of course, neither the Ford (nor the Toyota, I think) have a true granny low, so neither is a true four-wheeler. Sad to say, if you need a full four wheel drive vehicle, you may be better off just buying a used true four wheel drive vehicle and only using it when you REALLY need it (I've taken a two-wheel drive vehicle over some pretty rough roads, although I would recommend taking a four-wheel driving class so you know how to maneuver your vehicle over rougher roads. I remember working in an isolated area in South Dakota one winter and did an informal survey -- over half the vehicles stuck on the side of the road were four wheel drive vehicles. Four wheel drive will not overcome poor driving knowledge and it will not stop any faster than a two-wheel drive. If you don't have some kind of limited slip differential, a four wheel drive vehicle is either a two-wheel drive or a no-wheel drive). So...take a four wheel drive course, ora at least see a training video, if you plan to drive any vehicle over rough roads.

Quote:
>Also, watch out for the Toyota four-wheel drive
>system -- apparenly, if the hybrid battery runs
>out of power (likely on long hauls) you will revert
>to a two-wheel drive system.

At first glance, it seems like this would be the case, since the the rear wheels are powered by electric motors only. However, if my understanding of full hybrids is correct, the gas engine comes on when the batteries are low. Therefore, in the case of low batteries in a situation where AWD is needed, the gas engine would start and the power it generates would drive the rear motors in addition to charging the batteries. This would be my guess, unless somebody has actually been informed by Toyota otherwise. Any thoughts?

Well, it is now June 2006 and I am also looking for a 4WD hydrid that has enough ground clearance as I also need to go to places that the others last year won't go...does anyone know if anything new has come out that can do this?? Any ideas appreciated...
Please put hybrid 4WD in the sugject line so you dont get spammed out...
Thanks ;-)

These trucks are available as diesels. Diesels can run on biodiesel without modifications to the engine at all, and/or you can install a greasecar system that uses diesel or biodiesel to start the car and then just wvo.

The Jeep Liberty diesel looks like what most of you would want. It is very good off-road (typical of jeeps) and can do the stuff in the previous paragraph.

Those that need somethibng bigger can get any Ford, Chevy/GMC, or Dodge truck diesel truck or the Dodge Sprinter and Ford Econoline Diesel vans. Diesels already have more towing ability than gas-powered trucks (even the 500-hp V10-powered Dodge Ram SRT-10 trucks!). I'm not sure if the Durango is available with diesel or not. If you can find one, the VW Touareg TDI is a good choice but a little more expensive.

Come on qq. The Toureg is just a station wagon with oversided tires. If the last year's DARPA Grand Challenge hadn't been on roads, Stanford's Toureg would have been stuck right off the starting line.
In addition to losing so much fuel and the environmental damage, the other loss caused by the urbanite adoption of the SUV is the fact that there are no off-road ready SUV's being made any more with any fuel.
Personally, I'd love to see an off-road hybrid but there probably isn't a big enough market for anyone to design something rugged enough that I'd be willing to risk getting stuck in the middle of nowhere with. The low-speed, controllable torque provided by the electric motor would be great in a serial hybrid to reduce engine overheating. One could also design it to handle fording without need of a snorkle (you could actually submerge completely :-)
But let's just focus on the bulk of the market which need efficient, clean road vehicles for now.

There's no reason hybrid technology can't be applied to rugged, four-wheel-drive vehicles. As was said earlier, engine braking is simply non-frictional braking. Regenerative braking could be used off-road and, depending on the design of the hybrid system, the low-range gearing might improve the effect of it. The system could even be designed to increase the regenerative braking forces while in low-range knowing the driver will most likely want to take advantage of it. As for the effects of water, there's no reason the electronics can't be waterproofed and protected from the elements.

Because of the bigger size and weight of most four-wheel-drives, the fuel savings won't be as large as the road-going hybrids. But some is better than none and when being driven on the road, the 4WD hybrid will be able increase efficiency in the same ways as small hybrids. The road is probably where they'll spend the majority of their time anyway.

I convert simple classic 4x4 vehicles into rugged efficient drivable trucks using modern 4cylinder turbo diesel engines or full on plug-in hybrids using turbo diesel generators. Pick your favorite older truck or suv, we will restore it to better than new specs and make it out perform any new truck or suv on the market when it comes to simplicity, ease of maintenance, fuel economy and off road ability.
Nathan Johnson
Anvil & Co.
651.303.9438
nathan@anvilandco.com

Hi Nathan,

I live in New Zealand and I'd love my old Forrester converted to a hybrid.
Would I just ask my mechanic if they can convert my old Forrester to a hybrid? (I have a Gen 2 Prius as well) Or are you guys extra special mechanical engineers?

Cheers,

Minka

why not just convert it to full electric? why wait for the manufactuerers to do it? WHY DO WE WAIT FOR OTHER PPL to do things right, take initiative and fricken do it urself!!!