Honda Civic hybrid poor gas mileage

soniamichael1:

Northeast? Then that mileage is not that bad at all especially since you still have your tire pressure at less than 35 psi? Whether you drive a Civic Hybrid of Prius II, 35 psi is hardly the formula for fuel economy success - good FE results begin when you set the tire pressures to 38 or 40 (at least). I also bet there are also a few things that can undergo some improvements. Why? Because I have two Civic Hybrids and 3 Prius and I live in a much colder "city-only" commuting environment.

Without those improvements, a Prius or any other car is not going to make you look much better. Both cars achieve "abysmal" mileage when exposed to colder weather and short trips... But then again any other cars under the same circumstances will always fare much, much worse.

What are some of those improvements?

1. Install and use an engine block heater.
2. In colder days block your front grille.
3. Always compute your mileage by hand. The HCH display typically underestimates the MPG. The Prius almost always overestimates the MPG.
4. Raise your tire pressure to 40 PSI in the front and 38 in the rear.
5. Avoid any fuel with ethanol.
6. Don't drive like grandma. Instead, drive smarter and by the instruments. Those extra gauges you paid for have a purpose, so let use them appropriately. To help, please DO read and understand Tarabell's article for all the info you need in this department.
7. Absolutely, and under no circumstance idle your car for warm up only. This kills fuel economy and the car - not to mention the environment and your pocketbook.

If you can, go for a ride in your friend's Prius. If they are getting 50MPG or around that, then I bet they may be able to teach you a thing of two. Clearly and most assuredly the difference in is the drivers and many here will vouch for that (including myself).

Please let us know you you need further info. We'll be happy to assist.

Cheers;

MSantos

Wow! Another Honda Civic Hybrid Owner like me that has been scammed.

All these Hybrids are scams!!!!!!!

Well, at least your sticker stated 40mph City 45 Highway.

My 2007 sticker stated 50 mph City 51 Highway. I have never gotten close to that.

SCAM SCAM SCAM.

We have had our 2008 HCH for almost a month and are very pleased with it. Average MPG (manually computed) is exactly 44.0 MPG. Two tanks at +46.0, one at +45.0, two at +44.0 and the rest never worse than 41.5mpg.

Our driving consists of my wife going about 3.5 mi one way to work, local trips and two weekly trips of about 140mi that involves 45mph to 65mph driving on local roads and 7-9% long grades.

We are not pumping up the tire pressure yet, my wife pays no particular attention to the instruments (I do, however), we do not warm the car up and are pretty much following our normal driving routines. The car has less tham 3,000 miles (oil at 70%) and I expect to push 50mpg average when the warm weather gets here. The other morning it was very cold and the mpg went down 0.3 just getting to the end of the driveway. In warmer conditions it shows no decrease while driving and warming the engine up.

I realize that driving styles differ but we are not the kind of drivers that you would hate to follow - just smooth and steady. I think that expectations differ from customer to customer. The HCH seems to be a very good car - comfortable, well built and very conservative with respect to fuel economy. Our other vehicle is a 2005 Jeep Liberty 4WD that gets 18.5 to 24.0 mpg depending on the trip (Yes, it really did get 24mpg while driving 70mph on a trip to PA - hard for me to believe but it did happen). Friends of ours could never do better than around 14mpg from a similar vehicle - go figure.

I wish you could have made your points from an informed position. Clearly, seeking and receiving valid information for the purpose of avoiding embarrassment is not one of your goals.

Here's is yet another set of undeniable truths (I doubt you'll even assimilate these ones):
-The EPA was the one who set the 2008 MPG ratings due to its revised testing procedures.
-All cars where hit by the revised testing procedures.
-No car manufacturer can choose what to print on that sticker.
-Every manufacturer must print on the sticker the value the EPA mandates.

And since you are so bent on complaining instead of learning I suggest you do the following:

SUE Honda!!! Really!
Surely, your words and conviction must be strong enough for you to win, right? Please, prove to us all that your incessant whining is justified. Otherwise, be a responsible adult by owning up to his/her consumer choice, and either learn to drive a hybrid car properly or dump it. Judging from your words and attitude, I will guarantee you'll be scammed by the Prius as well.

Good luck & please let others learn even if you are unwilling to.

MSantos

Look more carefully bud. the Prius gets the same complaining from some owners too. If U really wanna see where the Prius owners hang out and really whine then go to priuschat.com... you will see how much complaining there is about the prius too.

Stop being full of BS. there are many more of us who are happy with the car so stop poluting the forum with your lies and ignorance.

nuff said

I am about to purchase a small Hybrid.

The doubt is between the Honda Civic and the Toyota Prius.

What I find from news in the Consumer reports bulletins is a bit concerning.
Basically, I could summarize it in one statement for each vehicle:

The Toyota Prius is much more fuel-efficient than the Honda and the Users amply testify this. However, there are also very disturbing reports that, on an unknown number of cases, the Prius has severe battery problems, battery discharge conditions that generate the need for frequent charges, also when the vehicle is stopped for 2 weeks or more, and several complains fall on the display system as weel The fuel gauge and consumption meters are at fault and finally, the thin tires wear out or blow, as a result of scratches developped on them (cause may be attributed to bad usage, but not sure). What is disturbing is that Toyota service and parts do not respond appropriatelly (in the USA - no idea here).

The Honda Civic is not known, in the 2005 & after versions, to have any serious maintenance flaws, so the ability of the maintenance crews cannot be ascertained. While this is good (no need to resort to them), it's also not very reassuring to risk being the first one to find out.
What is not in favor of the Civic Hybrid is that we should expect average 6-7 liters per 100 Km, if we do not want to drive like nanny (why the heck should we?...).

In summary: The Honda is less economic, but seems safer, on the reliability side (assistance included).

Another (very personal) choice of mine is aesthetical and appeals to my preference: None is good to go around. The Prius is certainly distinctive, but ugly. The Honda is nice, but that "only" a Civic.

Conclusion: I'd prefer an Accord Hybrid, but that does not sell in my country...

So I guess I'lll forget all that an instead by a BMW with a 2-liter Diesel Engine (177 HP, lots of torque and... just 5-6 liters of gasoil per 100 Km. That's even CHEAPER than tan these Hybrids!...

Yeah, there's a catch: I wonder if is wise to spend an EXTRA 25-35 K USD just to have a lot better driving and confort (and image too!) - I could not possibly use the "economy" argument, despite spending even less FUEL that you guys!...

I'm still divided.

WiseMax:

I own three 2007 Toyota Prius and I use them as fleet vehicles in my company. The Prius does not have "severe" traction battery problems. It does have the same incidence of accessory battery issues as the average car. Yes, if the car is not driven for several weeks then the accessories 12V battery may suffer. But to say that the Prius is unreliable is to be very far from the truth.

The Prius is THE most reliable vehicle on the road today (hybrid or not). The Civic Hybrid is the most reliable Honda in the entire automaker's stable. Even the Ford escape hybrid is the most reliable SUV in Ford's lineup. See a pattern here?

The guess gauge on the Prius is a well known issue/attribute (due to its fuel bladder) but it is not one that most people cannot deal with... and it is also the reason why people think they get great fuel economy on the Prius when in fact they do not at fill-up time. Please check Priuschat.com for additional info.

Getting 6-7 liters/100km is expected for the extreme winter season, and a Prius will get similar if not worse mileage under the same conditions. During the summer most Honda Civic Hybrid drivers get well below 5. Many of us get well below 3.8 liters/100km.
Please check the mileage database at GreenHybrid.com. The Prius recorded mileage is almost 2 MPG better than the Civic Hybrid. Thousands of owners contribute to that database and the bulk of them (myself included) trend similarly.

Also, feel free to check the mileage database at cleanMPG.com to see a similar trend.

No, we do not drive like granny. We drive by the hybrid instruments that we paid for. Why buy a hybrid with extra instrumentation if you are going to ignore it and drive it like any other car you've had?

It is all in the attitude and your sense of social and environmental responsibility. If you have a heavier foot and you see nothing wrong with that and you have no willingness to change, then no sensible hybrid is for you.

The Accord Hybrid was discontinued because performance hybrids are a generally bad idea.

Judging from your post, I feel you'll be better served by another car that appeals to your perception of how a car should be driven. Yes, a diesel should be good for you.

You too, Chiludo67. Since you already own an MDX and an NSX (hardly economical and environmentally friendly vehicles) an AT-PZEV hybrid is not a good choice for you either.

A partial zero-emissions vehicle like the Prius and the Civic Hybrid is only fully appreciated by those people who place the technology, the car's features and design into the perspective intended by its engineers & designers.

Again, like Chiludo76 says: Do not buy this car... And certainly do not buy the Prius either.
These cars are not satisfying for folks who place track performance ahead of environmental performance. They are best suited for people who care about making a change for the sake of the environment and to save money in the process, and in that order.

Cheers;

MSantos

Gman1964:

While there will always be some for whom hybrids will not work (including the odd "lemon" here and there), there's a much larger majority of HCH owners for whom the HCH-II is an outstanding vehicle... and our numbers prove it.

Please do not confuse rejecting the "reality" of a vocal minority as an implicit lack of respect. I have never demonstrated any lack of respect towards anyone and I as many others will accept a difference of opinion when the facts add up.

Sadly they do not yet add up in your situation. Based on the information you provided in your recent postings, you disclosed multiple factors that would explain your low mileage. We offered advice and made several suggestions that could have made a difference. Yet, you have not provided any feedback concerning an alteration of your habits, or adherence to any recommendation provided in this forum.

Now, I'll tell you what: Since you are in Canada, please PM me with the order number for your last service invoice and I will see what I can do (do not include any additional info, personal or otherwise).

Cheers;

MSantos

Ann716;

Would you be able to review you last service invoice? Can you verify that they used 0W20 oil as they were supposed to?

Such a loss in mileage after the first service is often due to the dealer using a different oil grade. Unfortunately, there have also been dealerships that record the correct information but do something else entirely. At first, the best suggestion I can give is to observe them carefully and ask questions. If you are not comfortable with the dealership I suggest you start servicing your vehicle at an alternate location.

Also, would you be able to give us more details. For instance:
-Driving distances
-Traffic patterns you drive in (proportion of highway vs city)
-Weather and temperatures in your area
-Topography
-Gas brands
-Your tire pressures
-Anything else like (warm-up idling in colder days).

Cheers;

MSantos

Santos wrote:

"You too, Chiludo67. Since you already own an MDX and an NSX (hardly economical and environmentally friendly vehicles) an AT-PZEV hybrid is not a good choice for you either."

Say, Santos keep your smug pollution limited to Hybrids. The Honda made NSX is over 80% aluminum making it entirely recyclable unlike our hazardous material filled hybrids. At 27 mpg for a sports car I can't complain. Also, last time I checked the MDX is a ULEV that I can take skiing and drive in the snow. Hybrids are wonderful cars, but don't think for a minute as hybrid owners can look down at others as though we are doing better things for the environment because we drive one.

The best mpg (until electric cars are available) we can obtain does more for the environment than little hybrid badges on the back of cars can ever do. With a pitiful 40mpg the HCH is ok, but not as good as non-hybrids.

I live in So. Calif.
I have a 2006 Civic Hybrid that I bought Jan 2006.
I've had it for slightly over 2 years now.
The average from the TIME I BOUGHT IT (over 2 years) has been over 50mpg.
My "Trip A" (which I haven't reset since I got the car) is usually around 53.6. My "Trip B" (which I reset each time I fill up) has varried anywhere from 48 to 55 BY THE TIME I FILL IT UP AGAIN. That's important. There are times where I drive when I'm only getting 38mpg or 43mpg or something like that. But over the long haul, for each tank of gas (about every 500-600 miles I fill it up) I've managed to get in the 50 range. I've gone over 600 miles per tank more than a few times just to "do" it (making sure of course, that my MPG meter showed I was getting 50+ MPG to make sure I had enough gas).
I try to keep the car between 60-70 (usually in the 65 range) on the freeway. I don't have the A/C on unless I'm stopped and it's really hot (something I always did anyway even before getting a hybrid, I get a headache with AC on too long). Mileage is always bad when the car is warming up (for instance, stopping at lights for the first 5 mins or so, Auto-Stop won't engage until the car is sufficiently warmed up). But you make up the mileage on the freeway or on the street later when the car is warmed up. I DON'T use the cruise control (you can't get as good mileage). I'm easy on the accel when starting from a stopped light, and I'll cruise to a stop instead of using gas to the last second and slamming on the brakes.
Very simply it's this: I found that if you drive the HCH the way I drove cars before, I'll get mileage in the low 40s (43, etc). But by doing a few changes (not driving 55, not doing stupid things, but easy changes, like not going over 70, keeping it around 65, coasting, going easy on the accel from stops, being gentle, etc) I've managed to get pretty good mileage. And this isn't a one-way "going downhill" MPG. This is real world MPG over the last 2 years. Sometimes I'm on the street, sometimes on the freeway, sometimes moving fast, sometimes in LA's famous traffic, sometimes flat roads, sometimes very hilly, constant up-down hills in the area north of LA. If you drive smart (maybe not the way you used to, but if you learn how to drive a hybrid) you can get 50MPG on the HCH. My average for about 28,000 miles stays around 53.6 sometimes lower, then it will creep up. Never made it to 54 on the long-term average (highest was 53.9) but have made 55, 56 on the per-tank average. And have also had tanks in the mid 40s. But over the long haul it's been around 53.
As far as the Prius goes, I personally feel it's a slightly better engineered car, but it was damn uncomfortable for me. For me the HCH is stylish, COMFORTABLE, and fun to drive. And I find myself getting darn good mileage on my HCH so I'm happy (why does Toyota have straight control bars where the window and lock controls are, and Honda thankfully has ones that tilt up where your knees are, giving you more room? I used to drive a friend's Prius, and couldn't stand my knees knocking that annoying plastic bar all the time -- not so on the HCH -- and that comfort level is why I bought the HCH).
Again, there's no magic fairy dust. If you drive the HCH the way you used to drive your old car, you'll get lower mileage. But by slightly changing the way you drive you can really up the mileage. For those interested, I use 87 octane gas, I avoid places that have stickers saying they oxygenate or use ethanol (even though it might be used anyway unmarked), I use Mobil 1 0W20 oil, and haven't changed the original tires yet. I don't generally check this forum often, just kind of wandered in here, so don't know if I'll be around to reply to any other people's posts, just wanted to add my 2c. But I'm getting pretty good mileage, and I'm happy with my HCH. I had my old non-hybrid Civic for 10.5 years, and if I can get 10 years out of my 2006 HCH, I'd be darn happy too...

jawx,
Thank you for the excellent summary of your experiences.
You and early owners like yourself truly braved the waters which made it possible for many of us to be where we are today.

With this I will say that the field experiences that Honda and its HCH-1 owners went through were extensively factored into the design and manufacturing on the second generation HCH (2006-2010). This means that owners of the newer generation can look forward to a better trending reliability experience. There are already many HCH-2's checking in for oil changes that have exceeded 100K miles without a single CVT failure. The issue of the CVT ATF fluid while still a concern is one that Honda addressed more accurately with the second generation.
Lean Burn is absent and so is the short life expectancy for the 3 way catalytic converter and other emissions equipment. Same for EGR valve issues among many other smaller ones including SoC management governance and shorter battery life.

But more importantly is the keeping of accurate service documentation and engaging Honda Corporate when necessary. These remain best policies not only for HCH-1 owners, but also owners of the current gen HCH particularly as these age and develop their own set of unique issues.

Cheers;

MSantos

Notahondafan:

Your mileage will suffer in extreme hot weather regardless of the type of vehicle you drive. However, your car will show the effects more dramatically than most cars on the road today.
Indeed, the battery pack will protect itself from extreme heat by going off-line for as long as it takes. So the dealer is quite right on this one.

Here are some suggestions that will definitely help:
- open the doors for a few minutes before driving off in a hot day. This will enable the inside of the car to get a little cooler as the interior may be too hot.
- When driving off, keep the windows down for a minute or so then roll them up as you gain speed.
- Avoid dialing in too low a temp in the climate control. Start with a high value then gradually and slowly lower it until it becomes actually comfortable. Avoid looking at the temp value while you lower the temp setting. This is the single most important thing you can do. I can explain this further so that you can see how it is all connected.
- Pump your tires up to 42psi in the fron t and 40 in the rear. This will lower the CoF during the warmer days and will allow the tires to run cooler too.

Now the common mistake a lot of hybrid owner make is to get in the car and then crank up the cooling. When they do this they're are sucking the power off the electric and the small gas engine too aggressively which then prevents the vehicle from achieving its fuel economy potential.
In the summer we get temperatures that border on 104F and even get as high as 114F... and many of us still manage to get upwards of 50-55 MPG by following the simple rules I outlined.

Cheers;

MSantos

I have to disagree with some of the comments regarding poor mileage; you actually get real world mileage. You also need to remember that if you are getting 20% worse than the sticker in a HCH2, than in a normal car you also will be getting 20% or more worse mileage and off a higher base so it is much worse. In all situations the mileage will be better in the Civic. I have had mine for 6 months and have saved $1500 AU in petrol costs that’s $3K AU per annum.

I drive a combination of city, highway, at slow 60kph, medium, 80kph and high speeds 110kph. In the 6 months the best I achieved on the 100K trip was 3.1 l/100 KM or 75mpg for our US readers 100 mpg in imperial measure) on about 20% of trips, 4.0 l/100km 60% of the time and 4.6 the rest.

There are things that change for these trips, and in order that make the biggest impact on reducing mileage in my observationis the number of cars on the road, simply because other drivers are unpredictable and most do not understand how to drive. Next is the tires and wheel alignment, I maintain pressure of 45, and thirdly simple skills, such as driving by lifting my foot off the accelerator or not pressing to the floor as in a normal car and i try and keep the battery full.

The build quality and technology in these Honda cars is brilliant, and I understand the Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, GM and others are releasing models based on the same basic hybrid technology.

The key is you will in all situations get better mileage in a hybrid than in a old-fashioned car. PS I have a Honda insight and get 2.1 l/100 km (112mpg US) for the same trip.

Two things:

First, I have noticed that my hybrid gets much better mileage when the weather is warm vs cold.

Second, When I took my hybrid in for it's 10,000 mile checkup, the mechanic told me that they had "adjusted the brakes". After that i started to get 40 mpg, combined, on warm days and about 37 on cold days. I don't know what the brakes have to do with it but it made a substantial difference.

I bought the 07 Civic Hybrid and although my average isn't the 50/51 that's on the sticker, I do average around 45 to 46 on highway and 48 to 49 in the city. I have a few pictures where I've even reached 58mpg, but that was only for the first 15 miles or so. After that it drops back down to 50mpg @ 50 miles then back down to 48 to 49 till I need more gas (well over 400 miles later). I don't think I've ever put gas in my tank without having over 400 miles on my car and I've never put more than 10 gallons in it.
Suggestions...
Stay light on the break. When coming up on a stop, lightly hold the break down to keep your "charge" up as high as you can without maxing it out. You get more charge in each breaking cycle without applying much breaking so if your AC is running you have more battery power to run it.
For me, the auto stop kicks in when the breaks are applied and when my speed drops below 8 to 9mph. If you're in stop and go traffic, try to stay at a stop in "auto stop" mode as long as possible then when you need to accelerate again, try to reach higher speeds of around 10mph before having to stop again, this allows the car to reenter the auto stop mode. I’ve noticed with mine that if I don’t accelerate much after an auto stop that when I come to a stop again, the car doesn’t always go back into auto stop. I wish Honda incorporated a button to allow you to manually set it to auto stop or electric only for putting around a parking lot or when the car doesn’t feel like engaging its auto stop feature.
Also, don’t use cruise control as much. As mentioned above, follow the motion of the road with your acceleration. Speed up a bit when going down a hill if you know you’ll be going back up a hill, it builds momentum and you wont have to hit the gas as hard when going back up the hill. You’ll watch your mpg stay between 50 and 70, sometimes up to 80 uphill if you do it right. Just don’t get a speeding ticket down the hills.
Also, the acceleration of this car works best if you don’t floor it. Use the CVT (continuously variable transmission) for all it’s worth. Think of it as a rubber band… If you’re stopped at a light in a 55mph zone, when the light turns green, within the matter of 2 to 3 seconds you should have gradually pushed the accelerator down about half way. Once up to around 35 to 40, push the pedal down to about three quarters the way down (in total) then slowly bring your foot back up. You’ll feel the transmission wind up like a rubber band if you do it right and you’ll get much better acceleration and fuel economy at the same time. It may take some time but you’ll get the hang of it.
Also, make sure your AC isn’t set to 60 on those hot summer days. I suggest getting your windows tinted the darkest legal in your area. This will cut back on the AC usage and your battery will last much longer and your car won’t have to charge it so much which yes, does use gas if your battery power is low enough. I live in FL where our summers reach over 100 and I never have my AC lower than 70. Window tint is a real life saver and AC saver. It only costs about 160 to 180 to get a real good job but you’ll be more comfortable when the sun is really beating down. So do it and be happy. :P

RE Ethanol

Most gas stations around here are selling gas that contains up to 10% Ethnol. What are the issues with ethanol and hybrids?

thanks

I'VE FILLED MY 2008 HCH UP ONCE AND I MANUALLY CALCULATED THE MILEAGE AT 43.5 MPG CITY AND HIGHWAY COMBINED. THE DASH READER STATED 35-36 SO IT WAS PRETTY FAR OFF! I WILL BE FILLING UP AGAIN IN THE NEXT DALY OR TWO AND ACCORDING TO MY MILEAGE I EXPECT THE MATH TO COMPUTE ABOUT THE SAME, IM MY SHORT EXPERIENCE WITH THIS CAR, THE READER IS UNDERESTIMATING THE MPG ALWAYS CALCULATE MANUALLY!

I've read this thread with interest. Here's my two cents.

I bought a 07 Civic Hybrid a few months ago. Yesterday, I got 47 mpg on a 94 mile roundtrip mixed highway and city drive. The newest and revised EPA estimates are 40 city, 45 highway so it's all good.

I also confirmed that the trip computer is accurate, but a little conservative. I get 5% mpg higher when computed the old fashioned way.

Gman1964:

Sorry it took too long for you to emerge out of your problems. The Camry is a nice car and I am sure you'll be happy with it, should you choose to buy it.

Wish you the best of luck and health.

Cheers

MSantos

I recently bought a 2008 HCH and I love it. It is definitely a different driving experience as compared to a "normal" car. Takes a little getting use to watching the gauges and keeping the car at a constant speed. My first fill-up I managed a calculated 41.9 mpg! I was thrilled, smiling ear to ear because the last car I had (a 2001 Camry V6) only achieved 25 on a good day. The kicker was seeing it only took 30 bucks to fill! Wow...completely amazed. Anyways, last week in the morning, I was driving on the freeway doing 60 or 65 when all of a sudden the car started lurching back and forth, almost like a hiccup (hard to explain). I had to let off the gas and brake a little to make it stop. It does it occasionally in traffic too. Is this common with the CVT or hybrids in general? I have never owned a car with a CVT before. This movement from the car seemed to come out of nowhere. Other than this little issue, the car is great.

MSantos:

I can not reproduce the lurching effect. It has only happened a few times since I have owned it. The car only has around 900 miles on it. I will check the fluid level when I get home tonight to see if it is low or not. If it is, I will definitely take it in and get it checked out.

One thing I wished Honda would do better with this car is give the electric motor a little more power. There are a few roads here in Phoenix that are around 40mph. To me, that would be perfect to drive in electric mode, which I have, but only for a few seconds before the gas motor kicks in or the speed drops below the speed limit. It seems the electric motor is basically for coasting down hill (short city hills) or in steady, slow traffic. Does anyone know if Honda will revise the strength of the electric motor? I would imagine the efficiency of the vehicle would take off!

On the topic of electric mode driving, is it possible to have the assist meter next to the tach go higher than 4-bars (on a level city street)? That is the highest I can make it go before the gas motor kicks in. Not a big deal but the meter could go so much higher!

Thanks for the response MSantos.

AZCivic08,

Have a read through your Owner's Manual regarding the correct method for checking transmission fluid. What it basically says is:

1. Warm up the car up (go for a good drive).

2. Stop on level ground, turn off the engine.

3. Between 60 and 90 seconds of turning the engine off, check the CVT dipstick. The level should be between the low and high lines, on the HOT side.

4. Add fluid as required to get the level between the 2 marks.

The full and proper instructions is on page 195 in the Canadian 2006 manual.

Now, if your experience is anything like mine, you'll find if you go through the above procedure, and then check the level again, say the next moring with cold engine, the level will be more-or-less the same as the night before. That is to say, ok for hot level, but apparently overfilled for cold level.

My conclusion is that the cold level lines are what you use for intial fill, and invariably a bit more (around a pint) is needed, for the final setting at hot condition.

Perhaps MSantos can comment? I went through this process a few months back, and everything seems to be ok, but this disparity between hot/cold levels had/has me wondering.

Also, I have a pamphlet titled "Factory Recomended Maintenance", a Honda Canada publication, that recommends the "Additional Service": "Every 48000kms or 24 months" replace CVT fluid.

AZCivic08,

I believe that pamphlet I mentioned (Honda Canada Publication) spec's.:

48,000km or 24 months for the CVT

and:

48,000km or 36 months for conventional automatic.

I'm at work, don't have it here, just going from memory, and will check and post, if that is not correct, when I get home. Bottom line: same mileage parameter, but shorter time interval for the CVT.

I am a lurker and don't have a hybrid as of yet. I will be purchasing next year when my ridgeline lease is up.

Concerning your comments about poor mileage, I would like to add that winter gas formulations ruin everyones mileage. by the end of April,the regular formulation of gas will come back and your mileage should improve. Also, next oil change,go to a full synthetic oil. I believe the hch uses a 0w20 oil. Full synthetic should avereage out to @ 1mpg increase. In my truck, it averages out to be about a .75 mpg improvement. at less then 20mpg, I am looking for all the improvement I can get!!!!

beckycelebration:

Yes, there is much that can be done for you... up to a certain point that is. The rest is up to some things you can control and others you cannot (actual traffic conditions of Stop-n-go, etc). But yes, there's much room for improvement.

Let's start with the obvious:
- Inflate your tires to their maximum pressure rating or just a few PSI short of it. The maximum pressure rating is embossed in the sidewall of every tire. This is very important.
- When you need autostop to kick in, ensure that the air conditioning is in the right state and the defroster is OFF. Use the Eco button in your climate control system.
- When stopped for more than 10 seconds (yes, 10 seconds !!!) place the car in neutral (with foot on the brake) and turn off the gas engine. When you need to advance just turn the engine back on and take it out of neutral to move forward again.
- Avoid jack rabbit accelerations. IE: Stay below 2000 RPM. Anything above that and you bleed fuel needlessly.
- Avoid sudden stops and racing to the red lights or stops. Instead, coast and minimize the use of the brakes.
- Keep a steady speed for as long as possible and avoid pulsing the gas and brake pedals frequently.
- Avoid using cruise control in undulating terrain. It's good for flat roads but terrible for small hills.
- Stay at or below the speed limit. Seriously!!! Many folks claim that they'll be run-over if they don't speed as well. That is an excuse in mediocrity and compounds on the insult of breaking the law in the first place.
- Last and not least consider an alternate route that is less afflicted by a lot of stop and go or speeding traffic. Many alternate routes may be longer but you end up spending less fuel and they'll save you much stress as well.

The EPA 51MPG rating for your car was not derived from your driving conditions. In order for you to achieve the vehicle's federal ratings you would have to drive under exactly the same conditions the EPA tested your car in - which were very mild to say the least.

Cheers & Good luck;

MSantos

Hi MSantos:

"When you need autostop to kick in, ensure that the air conditioning is in the right state and the defroster is OFF. Use the Eco button in your climate control system"

I have a 2008 HCH. Can you elaborate, what is the right way to run the A/C? I am not sure what the Eco button is.

"When stopped for more than 10 seconds (yes, 10 seconds !!!) place the car in neutral (with foot on the brake) and turn off the gas engine. When you need to advance just turn the engine back on and take it out of neutral to move forward again."

When you say to turn off the gas engine, do you mean to turn the key and switch off the engine? Why not put into "P" then, rather than "N."

Also, as a general question, when we convert from L/100km to mpg, does anyone know whether this is imperial mpg or US mpg (I am assuming its US, but just want to make sure).

Thanks all!

Hi Peggy;

My mistake.

Somehow, and for a brief moment I forgot you had a Gen 2 Civic Hybrid. The Gen 1 HCH (2003-2005) have an ECO button but our Gen 2 HCH's do not. Again, my apologies as the Eco button reference is meaningless.

Why not put it in P? Because there is less wear on the transmission by switching to N from D particularly when doing it often as it is common in heavy-stop-n-go traffic. Again, when switching it to N keep your foot on the brake and when you are ready to move again, just switch the engine back on and then move the lever to "D" to move forward. This technique is usually referred to as a FAS (Forced Auto Stop) and helps reduce the hit on FE. "Starter wear" problems are a non issue on Honda hybrids so feel free to do this as needed.

The instrumented conversion on the HCH-2 occurs from L/100KM to US MPG and vice versa. In my view, imperial MPG is no longer relevant (??) and can even be very confusing to many.

MSantos

I have a 2004 HCH. I get 43 mpg. 50,000 miles. Mixed ac usage.
City driving. I drive the speed limit or 5 below. And my rear tires are regular tires not the low rolling resistance ones. I think that the only reason you can get bad gas mileage if you drive too fast and like an idiot.

my civic 03 claims to have average 45 mpg but im only making 33mpg atmost..
its claim are not true i dont know what kind of driving they did.
articles at
[&#@%!] shows how professional "mpg" driver to it but its not appropriate for everydat use like turning of the engine in a long downhill road.

I have a 2003 HCH manual and for past 11,000 miles I averaged 50.3 mpg. For my last 300 miles I even averaged 55.8 mpg.

But I do drive 95% on highway at 60-65 mph...

The instant fuel mileage display really helps, unfortunately that display just stopped working for me :-(

Hi Shur;

To manually compute your mileage you simply record how far you traveled on a tank of gas and you perform the calculation every time you fill up.
Many HCH-II owners will then compare the hand calculation with whatever the car records and quite often many will notice the hand calculated mileage to be slightly higher than the instrumented mileage the car tracks and displays.

The best pressure is the sidewall pressure which on most HCH-II's is 44 PSI. For starters however we recommend new owners set their pressure as follows:
- front tires set at 42 psi
- rear tires set at 40 psi

This will allow new owners to get used to the slightly stiffer ride while giving pretty good FE. If your conditions and comfort allow then press it up to the max rating which is the optimal safe setting. Many HCH-II will sport psi's in the 60+ range. Personally I only do that before a press interview or similar demonstrations. Don't worry, burst pressures occur well above the 100+ psi range. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

I am new HCH owner with approx 600 miles on it.My wife and i wanted to use HCH more for environmental reasons rather than economic reasons. HCH has one of the best emission ratings.

I also want to talk about mileage: My first tank ended at 33mpg, my 2nd at 38 mpg. I have read all the tips on this forum to increase fuel efficiency and i will try some of them to see if i can get the mileage up.

I also own a 2004 Toyota Corolla which gives me 35 mpg on the highway. If i use some of the tips provided in this forum on that car, i am sure i can extract more juice out of it.

So hence this question:

Can anyone make an effective argument that buying a Hybrid car makes it worthwhile to own when compared to Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla?

The Battery technology is new and nobody knows its reliability in terms of its life. I have heard that replacing the battery can cost well over $4,000 (based on dealer estimate). The average life on the battery is 3 to 4 years. That will impact the total life cycle cost of owning a hybrid assuming that life of car is 15 years. New Hybrids also cost more to purchase compared to a new traditional fuel efficient car. We would be better off with a fuel efficient non-hybrid if we look at the life cycle costs.

Any inputs?

I, too, have had issues with changing fuel economy. My 07 HCH has nearly 20,000 miles on it. From purchase to 8500 miles (first service) the mileage varied from 42-49 mpg in mixed driving. From 8500- 17000 miles, the fuel mileage ranged from 41-47mpg which I do not consider a significant change. My second service consisted of the following: Oil change (0w-20 synthetic which I provided) air filter, cabin filter, some kind of update to the rear suspension as my tires were now bald and new tires. My fuel mileage in identical driving to the past is now 36-42 mpg. The tires are at 40psi as were the old tires and the size is correct but a different tire brand as the Dunlops that came on the HCH were noisy. I have not changed driving habits nor where I drive etc etc. It seems odd to me that there was such a change after the last service. I went back to ask them and they said that there is a "new summer formulation of fuel" which sounds like garbage to me. Any suggestions?

MSantos,

Thanks for the reply. I tried some of the tips, reset my mileage counter and i started calculating the mileage to work today. I also anticipated the traffic lights and did a lot of pulse and glide and smooth merge onto traffic.

My average for a 4 mile drive comes to 45 mpg. Not bad. I have inflated the tires to 40psi. I was a little concerned to go above that since i live in Arizona and all the heat we have here. I will see how this little puppy does on my next tank of gas.

Thanks for the inputs. Overall: hybrids fuel efficiency is dependent on driving habits and i think car manufacturers should say that explicitly. When we purchased this car 10 days ago, the dealer did not say anything (perhaps they were blissfully unaware of that). I just assumed that I can drive hybrids just like any other car and i can get 45 to 50 mpg. I was dead wrong!

Checked the tire pressure on the sidewall: Max 51 psi (no mention of this being "COLD" psi however)

Hello again MSantos,

I appreciate your time and have a quick question for you.

In order to get the best mileage off my HCH 2007, would you recommend the 87 with Ethanol or the 93 Premium gas? I presume that the 93 Premium does not contain Ethanol. Or, am I wrong? A friend of mine tells me that Ethanol seems to bring down the gas mileage.

Thanks,
Shur

In regards to Ethanol in fuel. Virtually all, if not all, fuel in the USA contains 10% ethanol. However, the panic from many people regarding the drop in fuel mileage is silly. Ethanol contains approximately 85% of the energy of gasoline. Therefore, if you have 10% ethanol, you have 90% gasoline. This means that our "normal" fuel has 98.5% of the energy of pure gasoline. The problem is that most places have different formulations for different times of year with other additives. The summer fuels tend to be less efficent than winter fuels. 93 octane generally doesn't do much for modern cars designed to run on 87 octane. There was an article a few years back in one of the car magazines that proved this. When a vehicle showed an improvement, it generally wasn't a cost-effective improvement.

SAbel

I did most of the things listed on this site to pump up the mileage. I drove out of town this weekend and with 40 psi in the tires, HCH II gave me 48.5 mpg. I filled 10 gallons before the drive and my mileage counter is now reading 475 miles and it still has some gas to drive for another 15-20 miles before it hits empty.

My car currently has 1200 miles on it (total). I am impressed with the mileage so far. My first gas tank on this car was a mere 33 mpg at 32 psi. I am shocked to see the mileage go up to 48.5 mpg.

The following are the lessons learned from my long distance drive:

1. HCH II tends to give the best fuel efficiency on highways (long distance) and at constant speed.

2. City conditions with lots of lights or stop and go situation is worst for fuel efficiency. HCH II mileage drops with more stops and starts in city conditions. I still manage to get 40 to 42 mpg driving within the city ( 60% surface streets, 40% on the freeways). I am very careful with my acceleration and i use cruise control in the city to pump up mileage. Cruise control works.

3. I live in AZ and the speed limit on the highways is set at 75 miles per hour. It is way too fast for HCH II for fuel economy. People here drive at 80 to 85 miles per hour on the highways. My entire trip was between 60 and 65 miles per hour. I am 33 years old and I am getting trained for retirement with slow driving on my Hybrid (smile). It makes a big difference in mileage.

4. I also own a Toyota corolla. I would like to see what that car does if i apply all my recently learned hybrid tricks to it. I am sure I can get between 40 mpg - 42 mpg on the highway as somebody else has mentioned in the forum.

5. Finally : This car can give better mileage. The bottom line is how adaptable you are in changing your driving habits and drive this car sensibly and that makes all the difference.

VJ

HCH II dealer told me that I can sink my cellphone via blue tooth to the car audio speakers so that I can get calls on the car speakers if somebody calls me when I am driving. I searched the manual but did not find it. Does anybody know how to do that?

Thanks

VJ

Hi,

I cannot even imagine 60+ mpg. I am earning about 39 mpg around town and 42-44 on our short freeway hops. I think if traffic was not so heavy, or so much stop and go between stop lights, my mileage would improve substantially!

Cheers,
Steve in So Cal

REPEAT POST! (Time is now urgent.)

Can you, MSantos, or perhaps anyone else out there *please* tell me whether it is okay to purchase an '03 HCH?

I don't know what year Honda started making these vechicles, but I assume that they've learned a lot and have made a number of modifications since. So I'm nervous about purchasing an '03 model, as they may not have 'perfected' the system yet.

(I found one with a salvage title for $7900 with 90K on it. The body work has been repaired, and the car looks great in photos. I'm going to see it tomorrow.)

Thanks in advance for your response.

I just wanted to say THANK YOU MSantos for answering all these questions all the time. Considering this is something you are doing for free that you don't have to be doing is very nice of you. You helped me and lots of other people, thanks for your help!

There's quite a few factors that will determine if Auto Stop activates. Some things that will prevent it are being in "Sport" mode with the auto transmission, haveng defrost/defog on, low state of charge on the big battery, coming to a very sudden stop, extreme low ambient temperature, repeated low speed stops-and-starts. Basically, if it doesn't come on, there's a reason. Though I wonder sometimes ;)

Hi VJ;

That is a well known issue with the HCH-II. In fact it is a behavior unique to the HCH-II as all other hybrids instrumentation actually over estimates the fuel economy. Depending on how you look at it, it is actually a good thing. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Kfink:

Is your model equipped with a CVT or a Manual Transmission?

In any case:
First, pressing those tires up to their maximum sidewall rating is the primary thing to do if you want to see better fuel economy.
Second, make sure you have the recommended 0W20 oil in it. Anything thicker and you are paying the price in lower fuel economy.
Third, keep those speeds down. Anything much above 55-60 MPH is going to hurt any car's FE including yours. This is straight high school physics and mother nature still dictates the terms.
Fourth, embrace the DWL and DWB techniques. If you do, you'll see your mileage climb even higher, even doubling what you see now.
Fifth and last, if you embrace a few more techniques you'll see mileage you never thought possible. Anyway you get the point, but for now just try the suggestions one at the time from the top.

Please let me know if you need any clarifications and I'll PM you the details.

Cheers;

MSantos

Okay,

I had to drive 750 miles over the weekend on a trip to LA from Phoenix. I have no issues with the car but i am not happy with the mpg calculation of HCH II. Based on all the calculations I have done on the HCHII mpg indicator, I am 100% certain that HCH II mpg calculation it is totally wrong. Honda should calculate the mpg by measuring the spent fuel and the odometer reading and then calculating the average mpg and not by the current mpg measurements based on how you drive ( of course driving will have an impact on FE but should not be used for calculation purposes).

The reading that you see is completely based on the law of averages. Let me explain this with a scenario assuming that you are on a full gas tank and your trip reading indicator is reset to zero before you start:

Let's say you drive the first 300 miles at 50 mpg (based on the mpg indicator) and then say another 125 miles at 35 mpg under rough weather ( may be you started climbing hills, hit a strong headwind etc.). Since you have the first 300 miles at 50 mpg, you have built up a good average mpg. Now if you start driving the next 125 miles where there is enormous fuel consumption, the mpg indicator will start to go down. But due to the law of averages, the mpg indicator still shows you a better reading than actual as you have driven the first 70% of your distance at a greater FE and only the next 30% with a bad mileage. You would have spent enormous amount of gas in the 125 mile stretch. The car mpg indicator does not have any means to account for that.

For instance (under very similar scenario): My car was showing 48 mpg but my actual ended up at 42 mpg when i filled the tank and worked on my calculation.

Honda should eliminate this way of calculation. EPA estimates must be based on the mpg indicator ( i presume) which is faulty and I blame Honda for that. The best and the accurate way of calculation is to measure the fuel spent and the mileage driven. This can be automated with level sensors in the fuel tank and I am surprised why Honda ended up getting this totally wrong. May be that would make them sell more cars? ( perhaps)

VJ

I have a 2006 Civic Hybrid. It has never topped 40 MPG. Lately my MPG has dropped below 30 MPG. I have gotten new tires, had the fuel injection system serviced and switched to no alcohol gas. All to no avail. The pick up has also gotten worse. Very frustrating to say the least. Every time I take it in to get it serviced I get a letter from the dealer saying they are interested in buying small cars in good condition. I am thinking of taking them up on it.

LouisO, I forgot to answer some of your questions.

The IMA control system will automatically charge the traction battery when needed. No need to put it into neutral and rev. Whomever gave you that advice was wrong. Revving the engine in neutral might charge the battery but it will also waste a ton of gas.

Old batteries are recycled. No landfill for them.

Autostop doesn't wear the starter at all since the conventional starter isn't used to restart from autostops. The starter should last as long or longer than on a conventional car.

5W20 oil will work but 0W20 is recommended.

Start and stop driving can be good for FE or bad for FE depending on how start and stop it is. If the stops are short enough for you to simply glide without slowing down or actually stopping, it's good for FE. If the stops are long enough that you have to actually stop, it's bad for FE. Highway cruising though should do really well. On a level stretch of highway doing 62 MPH, I can cruise with MPG in the 70's. As for the CC, I don't use it because it will waste gas attempting to maintain a constant speed on hills.

I would also recommend using the AC when first get the car started on a hot day. You need to cool the battery pack down so that it will charge and so that it can help you save fuel.

As for it being a lemon and the dealer not wanting to take responsibility. It's possible. You definately have a dealer that seems to be of poor quality (judging from their advice to shift into neutral and gun the engine for 2 minutes). If you are in a city with some of the regular posters here, or at CleanMPG, you might see you can setup a meeting and have one of them drive your vehicle to see if it's up to snuff.

trust me you made a better choice. Honda is better. As far as gas miles how many miles are on the car when you got it. (you can email me direct-joefloccospics@yahoo.com)
So did it have over 50,000. First get emission pass. It comes in a can, It made for passing emissions,it goes in the gas tank. It says use a full tank of gas. less than half is ok.
The can is either in a box which is square. or just the can and its a steel can not tin.
Make sure it say emissions, there is one out there that says use every 3000 miles don't use that one. It should cost about $8.00 -$10 the most. Use that - it the miles are more than 50,000
and what state are you in . that makes a big difference. so back to miles over 50, then do this again but not at the next tank fill up but the one after, tires check ok - go to the engine
check the wires-look for cracks or oil. look @ night it you see a light show-lights\flashing around the engine - change the wires, You See the state makes a difference -the temp
either dries out the wires or cracks them. its a hybrid then make sure the oil is zero
weight- big difference - so it would be - 0w -10, now the state makes a difference
the second number is important too. if it cold there 40 would be too heavy -you would have
to wait longer to warm up. Use synthetic its better and last longer. so warn state use lower number like 5 - so it would be 0w-5- and change the filter too also change air filter car need
air. Do this and let me know how it goes.
joe

I've had my '08 HCH for ~3000 miles now and I'm getting 44.5 MPG (mostly city driving). On one trip (mostly highway), I went 200 miles and got 54 MPG.

To those of you averaging less than 40MPG on the highway, you need to drive LESS than 65 MPH. This is not a problem with hybrids, simply a matter of physics. Due to wind resistance, the engine has to work harder going from 55 to 65, than from 45 to 55. Driving is not a race, so put your testosterone in neutral and grow up.

Dear MSantos,

Well, I'm sorry that you didn't respond to my simple question ... it wasn't the dealbreaker, but I ended up buying a 2002 Prius and I'm very happy with it thus far!

I was at dealer the other day and asked them to inflate my tire to 40 front and 38 rear. they convinced me that if the tires were inflated to that pressure the tires will be worn in the middle really fast and may burst. How true they were?

quote "There's quite a few factors that will determine if Auto Stop activates. Some things that will prevent it are being in "Sport" mode with the auto transmission, haveng defrost/defog on, low state of charge on the big battery, coming to a very sudden stop, extreme low ambient temperature, repeated low speed stops-and-starts. Basically, if it doesn't come on, there's a reason. Though I wonder sometimes ;) quote

Me too. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Usually if I drift to a stop it is a sure thing.

Hi Bob;

Nothing odd about getting 49MPG at all. In fact, we see this so often in the driving clinics we offer that I will readily confirm your observations.

Typical case in point:

Sometimes, we get new HCH owners complaining about their low mileage. I get in the car with them and they go for a short little drive. Upon our return from this short little trip we arrive with the car in the mid to high 30 MPG's.

Anyway, we press the tires up a bit and we take the owners in their new car for a drive but this time we're driving over exactly the same course they picked earlier. When we arrive we have the mileage ranging from 55-65 MPG. Predictably, they can't believe the very same car got double the MPG's. I would react the same way if I were them.

After this, we tell them what they did wrong and showed them what we did right and they take out their car for one last drive with me seating in the passenger seat. Upon our return we usually arrive in the high 40's to low 50's.

Quite an eye opener, heh? You see, the car has all it takes for us to achieve great mileage but it often is up to us to get the MPG's we want. Getting 60+ MPG in city driving or 70+ MPG on the highway is a regular thing for me. If you wish, we can show you how.

Whether it means anything or not, I will likely be on Honda or Toyota's side if there's ever a class action suit relating to poor MPG. :)

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Msantos, Where can we find more information about the driving clinics that you mentioned in your earlier post? Thanks.

The Honda Civic Hybrid does indeed get close to the posted mileage. The shame is that you could have gotten even better mileage if you would have bought the first version of the Civic 2003 or 04 because they came in stick shift. Here in Virginia it was nothing for me to get 50 or 53 mpg on the highway with the stick. But they went to all automatics and I mistakenly bought a 2006 version. With that car I average a solid 42 or 43 mpg. On the highway, driving around 70 mph to Florida, I got around 43mpg.
Here are some things to be sure to do. Drive sensibly. No need to mash the gas or race to stoplights. Keep your tires inflated to max. When replacing your tires, go with the factory replacement tires and no others. Try to calculate your mileage by hand. Your computer might be in error. The mileages on each car can vary wildly. But I've never heard of 32mpg! That's absurd. Did you buy the car brand new?
I am disappointed that the CIVIC does not sustain 50mpg, but 43-45mpg is much, much better than any of my other friends' vehicles. Again, driving from Richmond, VA to Daytona FL, I was able to get all the way to the southern tip of Georgia on one tank of gas, running the AC with wife and luggage aboard.
I await the PLUG INS

The stickers mileage information are based on constant terrain and environment conditions.If this conditions do not apply then the mileage may vary.This is how the company will speaks. It is a sad thing that a good car has a low gas mileage.

Are you in the Northern Hemisphere? ;)

The reason I ask: your mileage drop could be due at least in part to cooler weather. The car's computer is aware of outside air temperature and delays the start up of "hybrid" behaviours as the temperatures drop. This will have the most effect on miileage if you're doing short trips. Regardless of trip length, there will be some downturn in mileage in colder weather. Also, wiith fall and winter comes more rainy days, and wet roads will increase the rolling resistance of your tires. FYI, our '06's mileage always deteriorates in winter.

The more I think about the above, the less plausible it sounds: if you've had the car since new you're more than likely aware of seasonal fluctuations in mileage. Anyway, I'll just leave the above as is, there might be something worthwhile in it ;)

A question regarding "i am only getting to 400 miles and im out of gas":

Are you literally running the tank dry? IMHO this is bad practice, for countless reasons, both mechanical and safety related. I'm assuming you actually mean "i am only getting to 400 miles and the low fuel light goes on", but just thought I'd ask.

And when i say we are in the 60s i mean at night, 80s in the day so still very warm

Our 2008 HCH use to get 5 to 5.5 litres per 100k (highway) when we first got the car (June 2008). We now have been averaging 6 to 6.5. City driving also dropped 1 liter from 6.5 to 7.5. Good mileage but not as good as it was when new. We were told the mileage would get better when the car breaks in.

We have not had any service work done yet. We have original oil that still displays (30%) so we have not changed the oil yet.

We are also noticing some mild surges just before coming to a stop. The surges are quite common but usually occur when coasting in to a stop sign. Any ideasÉ

Just looking for reasons.

Jim, my first (and usual) thought would be your mileage drop is due to drop in ambient temperature (cooler weather). Since you're quoting mileage in metric, I'm guessing you're in Canada, but with my track record in this thread, maybe you're in Australia, and I'm out-to-lunch once more, LOL.

Anyway, *if* you're in Canada, or similar climate, this time of year you're almost guaranteed to see a mileage drop, due both to lower temps (prolonging warm-up, etc), and increased rolling resistance (wet or snowy roads).

Someone's (very smart I thought) suggestion as one way to get better mileage: drive less in winter. Stuff like consolidate trips, walk to the corner store (instead of driving), that sort of thing.

to all the honda civic haters, please, go buy the prius. which is no where near the value of the civic, in my opinion.
i purchased an 06 civic, and have been in love with her ever since.
i dont know anyone who EVER got the mileage posted on the sticker, and if you believed it, well, you didnt do your research very well. I live in los angeles, yeah, i have traffic problems even with the carpool lanes. i get about 40 mpg and drive like a jerk. i was in an accident and my civic was deemed a total loss and i am desperately trying to replace her.

I have owned a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid in Orlando Florida since September 2006 (2 years and 2 months). The window sticker stated 49 city/ 51 hwy. It took a little retraining of my driving style but in the last 1,100 miles (a combination of hwy and city driving) I have averaged 52.3 mpg and in the last 8,200 miles averaged 46 mpg. (According to the dash gauges.)
Like other people have mentioned, I have learned to use the air conditioning sparingly so my
gas mileage goes up in the spring and fall and drops in summer. Although I didn't notice it last
winter, it seems like the auto-stop feature won't work if it is too cold out and the engine hasn't
really warmed up yet.
I just try to accelerate slowly, coast into anticipated stops and try to use my cruise control
at 50 mph as often as I can, use the a/c sparingly.

Hi Milo & All;

The 06, 07, 09, 09 and 2010 models are architecturally identical without any significant changes affecting fuel economy. Absolutely none.

In fact, I have no problems with any of the model years (used or new), whether it is the 06, 07, 08 or 09. I met and continue to meet countless new HCH owners of these models who often believe they are victims of either of the following:

- Rip-off and false MPG advertising
- Faulty car, perhaps a lemon
- Engine not broken-in yet

Amazingly, they all believe they are good drivers and that there's noting left for them to learn ... and because of that, the car is the one with the problem.

However, after I offer these folks a little bit of advice and a driving driving clinic in their own cars, almost all of them become believers of what these cars can do. 50, 60 to 70 MPG is something that these owners start cranking out after a couple of attempts on their own. The few that do not believe, simply don't want to learn and prefer to remain enslaved by the pervasive bad driving attitudes that they lived with for so long. They refuse to make 100% use of the car even though they paid in full for it. Very sad and definitely not very smart.

On the last reason: Yes, there's a break-in period for the car but that is not as significant as most people think. Again, the real "break-in" often happens with the owner, not the car.

Cheers;

MSantos

I was getting 36-38mpg in my 2008 civic hybrid using Arco gas. One week ago on the advice of a friend I tried Chevron and saw a 35% improvement (48.7 mpg-freeway) and 44 in the city.
On Friday I filled up with Chevron again and average 46mpg over the last 2 days......

I was told to use Chevron,Shell or Union 76 only but so far have only tried Chevron.

Couldn't resist:

For Those Of You Havng Trouble I Get 48 Mpg Computing A Full Tank Of Gas. I Drive 32 Miles To Work One Way. There Are Some Nasty Hills But I Take It Easy On Them And Beside Rush Hour Traffic Keeps Me At Around 50 Mph Since The On Ramp Is On A Large Hill.

I Have Noticed That When I Cruise I Tend To Let Off The Gas A Little Instead Of Holding Steady Pressure; You Have To Learn How To Play With The Car. Keep In Mind That It Took Me Aournd 31,000 Miles To Learn How To Use The Car Properly.

I Try To Maintain Consistancy When I Drive; I Do Not Tailgate Because You Will Have To Slow Down And Speed Up A Lot Which Is The Civic Hybrids Worst Enemy Next To The Hills. If You Go Trough A Lot Of Stop And Go Traffic Or Are Constantly Slowing Down And Speeding Up Then The Prius Would Be Better For You; The Civic Hybrid Is Better For The Hwy Or Roads That You Can Maintain Speed For Awhile Without Slowing Down.

Choosing Your Routes Can Help Out A Lot But Not Everyone May Have That Choice. The Route I Take To Work Has A Steep Decline; I Put My Car In "N" And When It Goes Over The Speed Limit I Will Put It Into "D" To Charge The Battery As It Helps To Slow Me Down. Of Course On The Way Home I Have To Go Back Up That Hill But I Take The Slower Route And The Incline Is Gradual Unlike The Route I Use To Get To Work.

The Return Route Also Puts Me On The Hwy In The Same Spot Where The Decline Started For My Going To Work Route Which Means That I Dont Have To Tackle The Hybrid Killing Hills.

Like I Said It Took Me A Long Time To Figure It Out And You Cannot Get 40+ Mpg As Soon As You Leave The Gas Station. You Have To Drive Some Time And Let The Distance To Fuel Consumption Ratio Increase To Give You A Better Ratio. Whenever You Are Pressing On The Gas Pedal You Will Lose Large Amounts Of Gas In Any Vehicle.

What I Don't Like About The 2007 Civic Hybrid Is That It Was Not Designed For California Hwy Speeds; Anything Or 55 Mph Deminishes My Mpg Because The Cars Gear Ratio Is Not Set Right So You Have To Maintain Constant Pressure On The Gas Pedal Which Again Means Loss In Gas, A Few More Gears Would Be Great Honda But Other Than That I Love The Car!

I Just Went Back And Read A Few Other Posts On This Forum, I Guess I Have More Work To Do If They Are Getting Those Numbers. Some Of Them Are Saying That The Car May Have To Be Broken In, That May Be Why I Didn't Get 48 Until Recently At 31,000 Miles.

Since Everyone Is Compary Toyota To Honda In This Forum The Prius Is Cheaper But I Have Driven Both And The Civic Is More Luxurious And It Looks Way Better But I Guess It All Depends On The Personallity Of A Person.

If you are getting such lousy gas mileage there is only two possibilities - there is something wrong with your vehicle or you have driving habits not conducive to good mileage. The EPA estimates are based on certain driving habits - most of which are not how people drive. However, assuming there is nothing wrong with your vehicle, you can easily obtain 40+ miles per gallon and with very careful driving, you can even exceed 50 miles per gallon. I, for example try to not hit the brakes except when necessary and allow the engine to coast down long before I get to a red light. I try to keep the vehicle rolling through stop signs (when safe) and try to time redlights so that I don't have to stop. There is really no inconvenience in doing this but most people will approach a light while continuing to hold their foot on the gas until they need to brake. Also, most people accelerate quickly from the red light (often to just run up to the next so they can come to a stop again). I always try to keep the car rolling. I drive about 45 miles each way to work on the Atlanta freeways with plenty of stop and go traffic and several redlights. Even with this, last week I managed 4 days of staying over 50 miles per gallon and can usually count on obtaining about 47. A few years ago I had to make a 45 minute trip across Camp Pendleton each day; lots of low speed limits and coasting allowed me to get over 60 miles per gallon. The moral of all this is that you need to alter your driving habits if you want to get the gas mileage"promised". None of these habits make me get to my destination any slower (e.g. the person who races to the next red light just to come to a full stop doesn't get ahead - in fact, I often roll right by them as they have to come back up to speed.) Also, if you are going excessive speeds i.e. above about 75 MPH, you will begin to really degrade your gas mileage. Wind resitance increases with the square of velocity i.e. the energy needed by your engine grows exponentially with speed. Driving around 65 on level ground without acceleration should show about 40-45 mpg.

Good point about blocking the Intake.

See here for this and other winter specific tips:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17560
and here...
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18185

Merry Christmas to all.

MSantos

I have never seen less than 47 mpg on my 07 hybrid civic.
Normally, I receive 50+ around town and higher on the road. I watch my MPG indicator, to insure I stay above 50 mph, while driving. Whats' the rush.

Remember, you purchased this car for good mpg, so drive it that way.

Hi Sean;

Sorry to hear about your experiences. I just wish you had gotten the best of the dealerships in the nation to deal with and in many cases that is how a bad hand is dealt to a consumer. It happens all the time with all brands and makes. I say this because it is very unfortunate you cannot share the same ownership experiences so many of us have.

Would you want to have someone in your area (with driving experience in these cars) give you a second opinion? As you may know, many of the service people in smaller dealerships do not drive them and hence can't tell when something is normal and adding a noticeable lack of training does not help at all either.

Here's my point: If we can find you another HCH-2 driver in your area and you are willing to let them look at your car and even drive your car with you as a passenger then you would know if something is truly amiss... would that help? We can this a "clinic".
In my experience, there's always a good reason (or reasons) for the mileage to drop like that. The question is: Can we see it? More often than not, we can and demonstrating it is best.

Anyway, you can try here for a start too:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18185

Failing to find a pleasing solution, you can always sell the car too as it should fetch you a good deal more than any other of the same age would.

Cheers;

MSantos

My 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid was getting 48mpg in the summer. It is now at 32mpg in the cold midwest. This is rediculous and I've brought this up to the dealer. They say the car is running fine. BULL! Its lost 32% in mileage and I will continue to take it back. I'd rather have a plain Civic and not pay the expense of a poor mpg hybrid!

2007 Honda Civic Hybrid Owners:
Honda is aware of an issue with the control arm, however, they are not giving a recall notice. I was told they are not making the owners aware of the problem, because it is "intermittent".
I went in for an oil change and tire rotation at 14,000 miles, and was told that the inspection indicator on the dash was requesting that a full vehicle inspection be conducted. Since my gas mileage had went from 41mpg to 34mpg, I agreed to pay the $150.00 to Sunnyside Honda in Parma OH for the inspection. My vehicle at that time was only 8mos old and straight off the boat directly to me.
Following the inspection, I was told the control arm was defective, and that both rear tires needed to be replaced as a result. The dealership would only replace the control arm and not the rear tires, since the vehicle was over 12,000 miles.
I contacted American Honda customer relations and was told that the tires would not be covered. Why? Because I did not get a tire rotation sooner, and furthermore, that factory Honda tires do not have a mileage rating. This ill logic was the case managers conclusion for not covering the tire replacement. Overall, I paid out over $300.00 for Honda's negligence.
As you can well understand, I am not a happy and proud Honda Civic Hybrid owner at this time. To all that read this, I hope you will get the control arm checked. This is a grave safety issue and Honda Motors is severely negligent to its Honda owners. Personally, I feel they're customer care philosophy, is customer care"less".

Since then, my gas mileage has further decreased to 32 miles to the gallon. I'm absolutely disgusted because I could have saved a lot of money by purchasing a non-hybrid vehicle, and probably with higher gas mileage.

Thank you so much for sharing your story!! You are not alone. I've posted my story as well. I've never been treated so rudely/insignifigantly by a customer service (case worker) representive. It made me so angry that I actually broke out into a rash. It also inspired me to write as many posts as possible to bring awareness to other owners. Like you, I want compensation. I deserve compensation. I definitely feel wronged, scammed and discarded by the Honda Corporation.

Hi C Wagner:

Honda and other manufacturer's are constantly being taken to court for exactly the same reasons. In fact, there have been several well publicized cases recently that gathered a lot of national attention.

In the end, the courts end up ruling in favor of the companies and the reasons why... are very educating indeed, perhaps a clue for anyone considering future class action suits:

- There are many more owners whose experience contradicts the claims and will intercede on behalf of the manufacturer. For whatever reasons, this does not help the plaintiff's case at all.
- Honda and other manufacturers simply advertise the mileage numbers provided by the EPA. No more no less. Perhaps suing the EPA would be the smarter thing to do as repeating other peoples mistakes is hardly smart.
- Customers lose their cool too quickly and the "good will" that was there previously disappears before the case is even escalated to the corporate office. While this is not the case in all situations it does happen often enough to serve as a warning to those who prefer to burn bridges along the way because they're right and entitled and everyone else is wrong. Remember, always check an alternate dealership before insulting the staff at your current shop. Record and note all they say and use that with your exchanges with the corporate office. Carry your exchanges cordially and as factually as possible and that "good will" will be there for us as it was for many others before.

Lastly, locate and talk to other HCH-II owners in your area. By doing so, you not only have a comparative opportunity available for free but you may actually learn a few critical things you could not learn from the dealer.

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi C Wagner;

I did not insinuate that you lacked "good will", If you read my previous post you'll see that I was very careful in how I worded it. Still, I mentioned it because it does happen quite often and some people conveniently leave that detail out because only half of the story is being told in a public forum like this one.

Nevertheless, if enough people submit these types of complaints to Honda then it is an almost certainty that Honda will eventually come around, as they have in many other issues before. Keep at it and don't give up as other manufacturers have similar and, in many times far worse customer relations issues than Honda.
By the way, Toyota is definitely not better in this department and so far these are the two best manufacturers in our North American market. I own hybrid cars from both manufacturers and I would not want it any other way.

Cheers;

MSantos

One area that you might look at is the kind of oil you use. The proper oil is 0W-20. Some fast lube places will use a thicker oil 5W30. This oil will not cause harm, but, if used, will greatly reduce your mpg because of the oil operated cylinder idling sytem.

In colder whether, check that the emergency brake has released all the way. Salt and road dirt combine and can interfere with the complete release of the emergency brake system, reducing fuel mileage.

Other factors that have an effect on varying the MPG efficiency can be a tendency to race away from a stop light. Remember, the electric motor will be the primary system to leave a stop. However, if you constantly bury your foot in the throttle pedal, from the stop, the cylinder idling system will return to using all four cylinders to power the car forward. This will have a major impact on your MPG.

I, also, noticed that you did not rotate your tires according to the maintenance shedule. Be sure to change the air filter, according to the maintenance schedule.

Check the fuel pressure. At idle, the normal pressure should be between 38-46 psi. If it is not, your MPG will drop a lot. Replace both the in-tank filter and the fuel pressure regulator. Many times, if one stops at a regular time to refuel (like at a favorite gas station on the way to work) and the refueling tanker is there, there is the chance that a lot of contaminants are stirred up in the underground tank. Once these tank contaminants enter your tank, this will greatly reduce the mileage between fuel filter changes. Never refuel at a station where a tanker is refilling the underground tanks.

Finally, be sure that your method of calculating your mileage is accurate. Never "top off" the tank before take your gallons figure and always try to set the nozzle in the tank at the same depth. If you want to top it off, fine, but realize the gallons will differ and when you are only talking about adding 10 gallons, the error factor can be quite high.

I hope this helps.

Hey guys!

Been lurking for awhile but I've finally signed up, I'm 24yo from Birmigham in the UK and hopefully can contribute a lot to the forum..

Cya

We have a 2009 HCH. We live in Texas and bought the car in the spring when weather conditions were ideal, not too hot, not too cold. On the first tank of gas, we got 46 mpg in town. I was really excited, but that excitement did not last. The gas mileage went downhill from there, even when the weather was the same. Our gas mileage has gotten as low as 28 mpg and generally averages in the lower to mid-30s, with combined in town and freeway driving. We've taken it on a long trip and the only time we got good mileage was in the mountains, on the downward run, where we got 52 mpg! However, the uphill portion was awful as we have experienced the same issues with the battery assist as Notahondafan and others on here. The battery does not seem to charge well and it drops VERY rapidly. In addition, the assist does not always kick in, even when the battery is charged! So we are getting horrible mileage with no battery assist. We've taken it in for this issue several times. They say they can't find anything wrong with it and act like we don't know what we're talking about. No service lights go on in the dash, so we must be making this up...this is the attitude we get...but there is absolutely something going on here. I drive the car using all of the suggestions and I pay very close attention to the gauges when I drive. We've had a software update, but there was no difference in gas mileage or battery assist. Now, I had to take it in today because the drivers side window won't roll up and the locks are slow. Sounds like an electrical issue to me, but all they'll do is hook it up to the computer and tell me the same thing they've said so far...there's nothing we can find and this is a sophisticated system that will tell on itself when something's wrong. The window issue will probably be a bad "motor" rather than some underlying cause. All this and we've not even had the car for 6 months.

How to get the gas mileage in the 2008 Civic Hybrid - I thought this was the dumbest thing I had heard and fought the solution for some time. FIRST, I had worn tires with a lot of cupping on the back due to failure to maintain tire rotation. THEN when I replaced the tires, I did not get "LOW ROLL RESISTANT TIRES" recommended by the manufacturer. I had Yokohamas on the car for 8000 miles and had battery discharge issues and MPG in the mid 30s. Last night I replaced the tires with the Bridgestone Insignia ES200s recommended by Honda (RELUCTANTLY, I replaced them). This morning, same commute and I'm at 44.

getting 45-50 mpg is not difficult to get from a HCH in the warmer months....make use of the gauges you have....good real time feedback on what's going on with your vehicle with respect to the terrain you are on.....average during the winter months with temps on the teens 40-43...improves to 45+mpg with temps 30 degrees above.......that makes sense..colder weather..you don't get that much combustion with your gasoline..pure gas vehicles suffer more......much much less mpg for them.....also........i always use shell gasoline.......good combustion with their gas products.......other gas stations....nah forget it....feels like you are going up the hill everytime with every acceleration....not much force.....try it you guys! guaranteed you'll get the same result....

So, I just got my '09 Civic Hybrid, brand new, yesterday -- and while I was driving it around today, I looked at my fuel gauge and it was clocking in at rates varying from 10.1 - 8.8L/100km (per above the CAD EPA stats 4.7L/100km city)! Granted, I'm transitioning to the Hybrid, so maybe I'm still adjusting to the Hybrid way of driving (i.e not accelerating out of a full stop), but do you guys think this is worth reporting to Honda right away? Or should I give it a few more days to adjust my habits?

Any other tips would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Our expereince with a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid:

- Started out getting about 45 MPG highway and 40 MPG city.
- Every time Honda put in new software our mileage went down, we now get only about 29 city and 38 highway. We have relatives who get better mileage with a regular Civic.
- The cell battery drains to zero six seven times a week without reason, leaving the car severely underpowered. This started after they put in another software update and the dealer has not been able to fix it despite working with Honda headquarters.
- We are on our second battery pack, the first one died after four months.
- Our friends with Prius models have none of this kind of trouble.
- Customer service at Honda headquarters NEVER returns calls despite numerous letters to the President of Honda/North America.
- The fact that they settled a class action suit regarding lower than advertised mileage should tell you something.
- At our last service appointment, one of their saleman told us not to buy the new hybrid Insight, that the engineeers had not yet figured out to make it work consistently well.
- After 30 years of loyal Honda buying, we are done with them, given the poor quality and poorer service.

What is the correct oil weight for your car, OW20 per the HCHII, and what weight did they put in, 5W20? The HCHII says 5W20 "may be used" in a pinch.

If they used 5W20, or even worse something like 10W30, your mileage will definitely suffer. Other than that I think it will be ok.

But, I would approach the dealership and ask them to put in the correct weight of oil, free of charge. If they refuse I would contact corporate Honda in your area.

My similar issue with our dealership was they repeatedly put in 4 liters when doing oil and filter change. The spec. is 3.2 liter. First off, extra oil is detrimental to the engine, raising the level too high. Also, that oil is quite expensive. They also argued with me every time I asked them to comply with the Maintenance Schedule, which says to change the oil filter at alternate oil changes, not every change.

Ultimately, I gave up on them and now do my own changes. I find 3.0 liters is sufficient for changes, regardless of changing the filter or not.

>I have a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid with 128,000 miles and have had absolutely NO problems.

The MPG problems that are being reported here are in the 2nd generation models (2006+). Honda has made changes to the programming for the 1st generation (2003-2005) cars and the 2000-2006 Insights. These cars are not affected as much as the 2006+ cars are, probably because of the electric-only mode in these later cars.

52 is excellent for a CVT. If you had a manual transmission ULEV (I think only 2003), you should be able to get in the low 60s on the highway because of lean-burn mode.

Finally advice from M Santos that makes sense ! I am and will sure Honda. What M. Santos does not mention is that a man in California has been allowed to sue Honda over mileage and the claims that Honda has made.

Normally, federal law offers some protection for car makers from being sued over gas mileage, but the court has allowed this plaintiff to file suit over Honda's claim the car get over 40 mpg.

In the suit, the appeals court said that the Plaintiff has present evidence that Honda and Toyota have tried to get their MPG stickers lowered due to all the complaints.

I think all of us should file lemon law suits. It cost the consumer nothing and it cost Honda plenty. You can only do this in the 1st 24 months of ownership. If you are out of ownership, you can file a regular lawsuit and really drive Honda crazy.

Go to the courthouse and look up another lawsuit filed by an attorney, then change the names of the parties and file it. Cost about $80 in most places and then Honda will have to respond and it cos them thousands. If we all do this we can drive Honda into the ground.

Exact same problem for me, except I bought a 2008.

Same issues, same results. Got 50 MPG in the beginning and now it's 28. Just got a bump to 32 with the expensive new tires I purchase that dealer reccomdended.

They hooked me up to the computer and could not find a thing.

They said it was my driving, the weight in the trunk, oil changes by other shops... everything they said I did their way, no change.

I even unloaded the car and had my wife drive it for a week. She is 110 pounds and I am 215 pounds so you would have thought if it was weight, that would make a difference.

I have nto tried to rig the car so it can be tested without a driver yet, but I am sure Honda will suggest it too.

I live in SW Florida so climate should not be a problem. I even had the same problems with the rear passenger door that had to be fix.

I believe that Honda and the dealers are hiding something.

File a lemon law complaint.

I wish that my vehicle could get 32.5 per the gallon instead of 18 miles city and 20-25 miles highway.

I have a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid, and I get right around 44 mpg. I'm positively happy with this. It definitely beats the alternative... 17 mpg in a Cadillac Seville. So, I'm getting better gas mileage, and definitely not dumping as much nastiness into the air. ;)

hybrids are a total waste, the tax cut and the difference in fuel economy will only benifit you if you keep the car for a decade, idk bout the normal people but 10 years is alot on a daily driver and im going to say the batteries will most likely need to be replaced in this time also at least once

"With the Toyota the gas engine turns off as soon as you take your foot off of the accelerator (coasting) unless the battery is really low or the engine is still cold. This allows them to put out more horsepower with better fuel efficiency."

In the case of the Honda Civic Hybrid, the fuel & spark are immediately cutoff and the valves shut the moment you take your foot off the accelerator pedal.

I had the same experience as Mr. DiGiorgio. Great mileage when I first bought the HOnda Civic Hybird and every time they did a software upgrade the performance got worse. Same driver, same gas, same Honda Maintenance, same HOnda oil, same Honda tires, etc. After two years, and much hassle, I finally convinced them that the problem was theirs not mine and they replaced the IMA battery for the second time. Slightly better performance but no where what it was when we bought the car. Calling Mr. Di Giorgio a board troll is childish. it is his expereinces, he should be allowed to share them with visitors. The point you seem to miss and one which I agree with Mr. DiGiorgio wholeheartedly is not so much the mechanical problem but the attitude Honda had with him, myself and countless others. It is the attitude I would expect from Chrysler, not Honda. They ignored my pleas for help, constantly blamed me, and totally ignored my phone calls, both at the dealer and at Honda headquarters. I bought Hondas for 30 years for their outstanding customer service in addition to their cars. Both now stink and I will go elsewhere. That is the norms we have expereinced and which are valuable to this board. If it is too much trouble to "weed" through true expereinces than go elsewhere if it is too burdensome to you to page down.

I actually used to get mileage in the low 50s in my hybrid. Unfortunately now that I am having IMA bat. issues it is ~30. Honda won't fix it and I am going to take them to small claims court. The car is dangerous to drive now and just because their diagnostics don't show there is an issue...there is! My car is under full bumper to bumper warranty. People who have had the same issue and had the battery replaced no longer experience what I am going through. I can say this I am frustrated at Honda and they need a better way to test their batteries. The cars are unsafe to drive when there are issues with the IMA.

MSantos,

My mother has an identical situation with her HCH to that of Sean. Like him, I had full faith in Honda to live up to their reputation for superior customer service, and was severely disappointed when I was met with the utter lack of professionalism, concern, and compassion. From everything I've read, it seems that Honda "case managers" have quite the Jekyll/Hyde personality when it comes to their clients; it has become even more apparent that their nasty side comes out when they realize that their customers' vehicle has an actual issue that clearly warrants compensation. I still cannot believe that my request to speak to her superior was blatantly denied, the excuse being, "There ISN'T one." Really?! So you are the head of American Honda Motor Co. herself?! It isn't everyday that a billionaire CEO calls me directly!!

I've been quite disgusted reading your posts. You've convinced me that you're either part of Honda Corporate yourself, or you're simply getting off on slobbing their knob. Quit being such a smarmy hybrid fanboy; contrary to what you think, you're really not doing anyone on this forum any service.

Stephanie:

Keep after Honda, you must be relentless. We started out with mid 40s highway and low 40s city driving with our Hnda Civic hybrid but it got steadily worse over time, Honda said I must be wrong. After a year of hounding them we finally got them to believe us, low mileage and constant draining of the battery without notice, and they finally replaced the whole IMA battery. Drainage problem is much better, mileage is a little better. This is our third battery pack in just four years. It took a year of phone calls, letters to headquarters, and legal threats to get them to own up to the problem. Hang in there, be strong!

There is a lot of comments regarding firmware upgrades equating to lower MPG. I own a used 2008 and I get 28/36 MPG.

Can a dealer install the original version of firmware if the firmware has been upgraded? In other words, can the 2008 HCH be taken back to the factory state?

All this fuss about the mpg in the civic hybrid but my 2006 hybrid does just fine. I do the math both by hand and the digital reading they are normally with in 2 mpg and it is the calculation that is higher in the past year i have put over 20000 miles on the car and i must say i do not drive very economically(got a lead foot) but I average anywhere from 44 to 47 both city and highway. Sounds like the newer models suck at mpg.

DLG wrote in part: "Can a dealer install the original version of firmware if the firmware has been upgraded? In other words, can the 2008 HCH be taken back to the factory state?"

I believe the only way to do that is to replace the Power Control Module (the computer), and I suspect it doesn't come cheap ;(

IN SEPT. 2009 I BOUGHT A 2009 HONDA CIVIC HYBRID. WHAT A BIG MISTAKE! BY DEC.2009 I HAD TO SPEND $500.00 OF MY HARD EARNED DOLLARS ON A CADILLIC CONVERTER. HONDA SAID OH WELL YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT WE ARE GOING HALF WITH YOU (IT WOULD HAVE COST ME $1,OOO IF THEY WERENT SO KIND)GRRRRR... I NEVER HAD TO SPEND $5OO.OO ON AN AMERICAN CAR 3 MONTHS NAFTER BUYING IT. MY GAS MILAGE SUCKS!!! I DONT KNOW HOW MANY MILES TO THE GALLON I GET, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT BURNS FAST. IF I KNEW THAT I WOULD HAVE TO DO TRICKS IE..COVER FRONT GRILL, I WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT THE CAR. BUT THAT IS O.K HONDA LOST THIS CUSTOMER, AND IM TELLING EVERYONE THAT I KNOW NOT TO BUY THE HYPE. BUY AMERICAN!!!!! MY HONDA CIVIC HYBRID BURNS SO MUCH NGAS THAT FIND MYSELF LOOKING AT THE GAS HAD AS IF I WERE DRIVING A SEMI. ITS ONLY ME SO MY GAS SHOULD LAST. I FEEL FOR THE PEOPLE WITH CHILDREN THAT THEY HAVE TO RUN AROUND. HONDA YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. I KNOW THAT YOU JUST SEE$$$$$$$$$$ THI WANT EVEN LET HONDA DO MY MAINTANCE, I DONT LIKE OR TRUST THEMATS WHAT IT IS ABOUT TO YOU. KEEP IT UP AND I WANT BE THE ONLY CUSTOMER THAT YOU LOST. THINK OF THE CONSUMER AND THE$$ WILL FOLLOW.

I have a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. My first year I got good mileage. However, this last year I have watched it drop with almost every tank. I used to get over 40 on each tank. Right now the mileage is reading 32.8. I drive no different now than I did when it was new. I just had the IMA reprogrammed and appear to be getting worse mileage. Not happy. I should have bought the normal civic and saved my money. I only have 24,000 miles on the car. I read the information about tire pressure. I'm going to have it checked tomorrow. See if this makes a difference.

PS: While increasing the tire pressure may get you a slightly better MPG, but it will also wear your tires faster and you will need to replace them sooner... so 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

Welcome all and I'm so happy to be here. This is my first post here :D. Thank you! - [url=http://www.zjocurimasini.com]jocuri cu masini[/url] - Enjoy!

KP wrote, 5 weeks back:

"PS: While increasing the tire pressure may get you a slightly better MPG, but it will also wear your tires faster and you will need to replace them sooner... so 6 of one, half a dozen of the other..."

I think the opposite is true, higher inflation makes tires last *longer*, wear *slower*, at least up to the sidewall maximum.

I took my 2007 honda hybrid in for update. Now I get less mileage per gallon. And the worse thing it is very sluggish to go sometimes and this is so SCARY. I have to cross a freeway everyday . My battery, which cost 1700.00, was already replaced once. Under warranty thankfully.My replacement battery was replaced after I was almost T-Boned weeks before. I am so afraid of this car. I read one post which stated there was a class action suit and money was given out by Honda. I never saw any. But the truth is I just want out of this car and have enough to get something else. I think if I keep having to drive this car, I AM GOING TO BE KILLED IN IT. Honda knows there is a huge problem. How many are going to die first before they are made to fix this. Get a hold of me Honda. You need to buy your car back. Do the right thing. T. Penninger zwwafuz@yahoo.com

I just bought a 2003 with 97K the car is getting 47-49miles per gallon Highway. But city average is way down with the cold and waiting to heat up just kills the average.

Plus auto stop does not work for a slew of reasons:
1) if it too cold outside,
2) The engine is not near running temperature,
3) The brake (vacuum) pressure not right,
4) The batty has to be charge to a certain level,
5) Foot off the accelerator,
6) Transition in "S" or "L",
7) Speed is over 16MPH,
8) Have not obtaining a speed of 10MPH
9) Your on an incline
10) The ECON mode is not selected
(Which brings me to my personal favorite)
11) The interior fan must be "ON" for ECON mode to be enabled!
Note: the manual says "OFF" and that’s not how mine works.

Down sides:
My O2 sensor is starting to go. So I need to have that replaced.
~$217.00
Need better tires an alignment.
Does anyone know if there is a performance chip for this car?
(and If you got one did it, How did it work for you?)

Regards

I have a honda hybrid 2005. They suck ass. 33.4 MPG HIGHWAY ONLY. The car is bullshit.

[url=http://11c85927t0dm8s8b19slyu5u3p.hop.clickbank.net/]Go now![/url] .

We own a 2008 Civic Hybrid and this is the worst car I have ever owned. First off, I had to replace 2 tires at 16,000 miiles. The dealer said it was because we weren't rotating them enough which is a crock because we rotated them when they told us to rotate them. I replaced the other 2 at 28,000. Now, if I have a crappy set of tires, I can guarantee you that I can get a minimum of 40,000 out of them before they need to be replaced.

Second, the salesman told us, and was backed up by the sticker, that we could get 50 mpg no problem. The best I have ever gotten was 48 mpg and that was because I was drafting a semi. 40 mpg is a good average.

Third is the handling. This car handles terrible on wet roads or snowy and icy roads. This is NOT a car for anyone who lives in a snowbelt state. I live in MN and have done so all my life so driving in snow and on ice is nothing new to me. This car is actually scary to drive in either.

Lastly, is the comfort. This car is very uncomfortable to drive or ride in for any period of time. The seats are very hard and ridgid and the suspension doesn't soften anything either.

THe lease on this car is only 2 months away from maturing and I am happy to say that we will be returning it and walking away. This was a bad deal from the start and will be good to get out from under. Needless to say, we will not be getting another Honda.

Honda is great for thinking their customers are stupid. My mileage went from 40 mpg to 25-28 mpg after a software upgrade last year. I took it into the dealer last month and had it checked for malfunctions, and of course they found none. They told me they got 40 mpg after driving it 5 miles. After I picked it up, the mileage dropped like a rock back to between 25-28 mpg. which I have experienced since the software upgrade. I wrote their corporate headquarters and got a canned patronizing response from one of their trained customer complaint reps who told me the conclusion was that the degradation in the mileage was due to my "driving habits." My driving habits have not changed and certainly not changed significantly to cause such a severe drop in mileage. I got the same patronizing b.s. when I experienced a defect in their windshield glass. Time to buy a Prius!!

I just got my Honda and I do not like it either, I was better off keeping my SUV, MDX, I only get 30 miles and it said I would get 50,

I am with you guys on this to make sure no one buys this car,

Thanks

I have a 2004 and a 2007 civic hybrid.
I was fooled twice, so I guess shame on me.
Both of them are doing between 30-35 MPG,
Both cars started with gas milage above 40MPG,
and dropped down after services.

I remember that the 2004 had a recall when they claimed they had to enrich the fuel/air ratio, otherwise the catalytic converter would go bad. That sounds like a bull to me, maybe someone here knows better.

The 2007 had a recall recently, when a genius at Honda decided that to protect the bad battery dying before the warranty expires, they can juts keep charging it almost all the time. So they did a computer software update. Sure that decreased the gas milage. I think this last idea makes the name "hybrid" moot. It should warrant a (new) class action lawsuit against HONDA.

But the gas milage went down even before the recalls. Maybe because of the oil? I noticed that they placed the wrong oil in both cars, but when I questioned them they claimed it was just written on the service invoice incorrectly, and the car has the correct oil in it.
I know that they are lying. I just don't know how to prove it.

The 2004 had its transmission changed still under warranty (barely).
I just noticed the now well know shudder developing again.
Had the IMA battery changed a year ago still under warranty, and the air conditioner compressor just broke down.
This was my first new car. I had less problems than this with used and abused GM cars that I owned before. I should probably just cut my losses and sell the car.

The 2007 hybrid had its rear upper arm stabilizers replaced under a service bulletin, after a year long complain to the dealer about the terrible noise (they did not hear it), and after loosing the rear tire. The dealer claimed no knowledge of the widespread problem until I showed him the service bulletin.

I will probably try to change the oil myself, to see if it makes any difference, but with the computer software adjustments I cannot do anything.

I just spread the news and never buy honda again.

do yourself a favor, buy a diesel !!!. You will be much happier. The problem with our car companies is they insist on building what is profitable. We KNOW lighter weight works. We KNOW diesels are 40% more fuel efficient. We KNOW stick shifts get better mileage, but they intentionally don't build these cars. SHAME. Around the world they have same vehicles we drive here with much more efficient drivetrains. Why, because they demand them. Here, our EPA and government play us for fools. We need to demand this technology!!!!

Wow, all these complaints. Echo chamber I suppose.

I thought I was getting lousy milage and came here for tips on how to improve this during the winter. I was getting only around 42 mpg over the last 2500 miles here in Toronto. During the summer I was easily getting over 50.

So I'll just keep on trucking!

Well it's back to summer again, finally. I put the Dunlops back and and reset the Trip A.

Over the last 500 miles I averaged 57.8 mpg (US gallons), or 4.1 l/100km in metric. That's combined, but almost all hiway, I get about 45 in the city. This is better gas milage than it's rated for. The car is a 2006 with 60,000 miles on it, so it's not like it's not broken in.

I'd love to try out one of these cars that doesn't get the same. It would be interesting to both drive the same route and then compare the IMA battery levels.

My experience is very much like Mr. Porter's. We've had our 08 Civic Hybrid for nearly a year. Initially we were very satisfied - getting (a calculated) 40-45 consistently. Then in Nov I got the update notice and naively took it in thinking this could only help things. Since then my mileage has nosedived averaging 32-35 in the winter and 35-38 in the summer (please note though that I am only getting 30.5 on this tank. When I went back in after the nose dive, they blamed it on the cold weather and said that it would be better again in summer (it has not). We love many things about this car but are feeling ripped off by Honda. I don't know what is going on with these updates but I don't believe that Honda has its customer's best interests in mind but rather theirs.

We have owned a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid since it was brand new, and it is the best car I've owned in my life. Even after driving it for 8 years, we get an average of 42 mpg. We will definitely buy another Honda, and probably a hybrid, when we buy another car, but we expect this one to last quite a while longer!

Yep we get 33-35 mpg on our 2009 Civic Hybrid. For the last 10 months I have been telling my wife that the computer program update caused it and showed her how the battery was charging more often and the electric moter not aiding the gas motor as often. Honda does not admit but a mechanic did tell me the upgrade was to help keep the battery life longer.
I want some $$ back from Honda, like the $4k or so I paid for the hybrid and not the standard civic. Heck, now with the mpg lost, the loss of extra trunk space really makes this car SUCK.

i just got a 2005 5-speed stick shift used w/ 50k miles for $10,000. I'm getting 51mpg and commuting 150 miles daily. I ordered a k and n air filter and some honda genuine mtf. Using both in my 2000 insight bumped my mpg from 60 to 68. I am shooting for 55-60 in the civic hybrid. I read all of these other complaints and all I can say is.....CVT is lame. I could get 90mpg in my insight driving 55 on the freeway, or get 55mpg driving 90.
i am looking forward to improving on my HCH's mpg. To all of you who look at the window sticker mpg rating of any car like it's the word of God...I bet you actually believe politicians can improve your quality of life. Only you can make yourself happy and only you can achieve / improve your mpg!

by caring enough to really become "hands on" in your maintenance and driving

I bet half of you with your lemon law suits are driving around with conventional 5w-20 / 5w-30 and don't even know it !

Very helpful. I just bought an 08 Civic and was disappointed to be getting less than 33 mpg om
N my first road trip. I'll take all your suggestions. Thanks!

The MPG on the sticker is saying what the car could get, not what you will get speeding around town. If you want to get the mileage stated on the sticker be prepared to see a lot of middle fingers from other drivers as they pass you and honk the horn.

You can drive your car anyway you like, you will still get better gas mileage than from a regular car being driven the same way. Also, any technique that can be used to get better gas mileage from a hybrid can also be used on a regular car.

My top tips for better gas mileage:
-Always use 0w20 motor oil.
-Increase tire pressure, I like 40 psi.
-Use pulse and glide whenever possible.

Hi Guys,
I have just bought a honda Civic Hybrid MXST Model 2008 Japan. The DVD player language is in Chinese can any one help me how i can change the language to english. Any software to be used!

Thanks

I concur. I have a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. It was getting mileage in the 40's, not the EPA listing, but not bad- then I took it in for an oilchange-and-service and it got a "computer program update" and now my mileage is 33-37. The service rep gives me the usual "changed driving habits", "alcohol in the fuel in winter" bla bla blah but this happened well over a year ago. It was fine before the "computer update", dropped immediately after, hasn't come back. Plus the realtime battery charge meter readings make no sense at all now. (example - jumps from 3 bars to 10 bars, then back. What?) I am resigned to lower gas mileage. I got screwed, and next time I am going for the Toyota Prius. Hope you're reading this, Honda!

Ro111, I have a Honda Civic Hybrid 2007 as well. When my wife bought the car, she regularly got 43-44 mpg city and highway. Now she gets around 34 mpg. It used to be 38 before the software update they did a year or so ago. Right now we have around 90k miles.

There are people on this forum who will tell you they get 100mpg in their pinto. People like this exist; they are called hypermilers. They are not normal people. You and I will get 30-35 in our four year old hybrids, because we think about other stuff.

I suspect the main problem is the life of the battery. Any battery looses efficiency over thousands of cycles. Think about your laptop - the battery dies after a couple years.

What's everyone doing with your recall notice?

I had similar experiences until my first major maintenance check when they installed some new software to protect/enhance the battery. I lost 6-8 mpg immediately! The dealer recommended a few procedures that have given me back 3-4 miles, but it has never given the early mileage since. Other than that, the car is great. I plan to sign the lawsuit even though it will only pay a couple hundred dollars.