Honda Accord Hybrid
Created November 10, 2004, at 8:56 am by Anonymous
I don't understand this. Honda is estimating 30 mpg city / 37 highway for their new Hybrid that is due out this winter. But I thought with hybrids that the city mpg is typically higher than the highway?
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Honda and GM "Hybrids" are not full hybrid. They use the gas engine from a dead start. Full hybrids can use just the electric motor for a few minutes and up to 25 mph or so before the gas engine starts.
That is why the full hybrids love the city driving modes.
a hybrid is simply something that combines two or more elements. gas-electric is what we're used to seeing.
the fact that a car swithces to full electric or full gas isn't making the car more or less of a hybrid, just their engineering choice on how to get maximum mileage which seems to be the functional goal in car hybrid design today.
the honda acord hybrid is also using technology to switch from all 6 cyclinders down to fewer cylinders on the highway. this might be considered a tri-brid? the idea of switching from more to fewer cylinders is a very good way of improving mileage in a "traditional" manner & to combine this with the electric hybrid methods is a very nice extension of the idea.
i hope to see more of these creative ideas reach the market.
steve
I bought an Civic Hybrid in April, 2004. The window sticker said it should average 47 MPG highway and 48 MPG city. At first I got 47 MPG highway, but after 7 months and 11,000 miles it has dropped to 40 MPG highway. The Honda dealer says it is performing "up to specs" and there's nothing they can do about it. American Honda's customer service repeated that claim. Also, when I first got it in April, it got 37 MPG city, which is 11 MPG lower than the sticker said it should. Now it is getting 29 MPG city. Once again the dealer says it is performing as it should and that there's nothing wrong with it. How can that be? I will never buy another Honda of any model due to my experience with this one!
P.S.--The brakes are very noisy..........make a clattering noise when applied. Again, Honda says this is "normal" for this car. Plus, the steering is stiff and doesn't always turn either direction smoothly at both highway and city speeds. The dealer said there's nothing wrong with this kind of performance.
I have a question about the new Accord Hybrid; In the state of Virginia, does / will it be conceded a zero emissions vehicle, and thus, be allowed on HOV roads during HOV time, with a single passenger. Cars that are currently accepted are the Civic Hybrid Toyota Prius. Thanks.
I bought the Insight when it 1st came out in Y2K. But I passed on the Civic hybrid, because I needed a 2d car that would suit the family. Now I just got a Hybrid Accord.
It's a sweet car, designed and built to be worth the 34k I paid for it. I hated paying 2500 over MSRP, but that's what I get for being the first to drive one.
The 6cyl engine really kicks butt. After driving the 70HP Insight, it's actually hard to *not* burn rubber in the Accord.
It's way tricked out inside, too, with lots of fun electrical gadgets you can read about at honda.com. I sprung an extra 2k for the only option available - onboard GPS nav. It will take me a while to figure out how to operate all the bells and whistles. But it's no problem to just put in the key and drive.
IMHO-
Best feature (so far): Power. Merging has never been so fun.
Worst feature: Price. The dealers are profiteering, but hey that's capitalism.
I just bought an accord hybrid and am getting 18-19 mpg driving like a
granny trying to max efficiency. It is brand new and I wonder about break in
period. I'm pretty bummed at this point and the dealership doesn't have
answers yet, they say they will call Honda engineers to get more info.
Eric
Fuel Economy: I too am a new Accord Hybrid owner in Maryland. I'm averaging 31 mpg with most of my travel on 45 mph, mostly flat roads to and from work. I thought I'd average closer to 34 or 35 mpg. I'm not counting on fuel economy improving with the miles I add, but it would be nice!
Tank size: My current mystery is the tank size. I let the gas fall close to Empty yesterday and refueled within one mile of my fuel light coming on. I filled up with less than 13 gallons, but the tank is supposed to hold 17.1. I'll contact my dealer after the holiday.
Still like it: The Accord was the best compromise for me after finding the Civic & Prius very uncomfortable to sit in for more than 30 minutes. (Long legs and sciatic nerve issues). And the option of having a roof rack is great. It's my first vehicle in 8 years, but I look forward to having more environmentally sound options next time around.
i took a test drive today. the power is more than satisfactory. i still dont know if the extra cost is worth the mileage savings...gotta think about that one.
incidentally, i found this Accord Hybrid forum
www.accord-hybrid.net
I have only 500 miles on my Accord Hybrid, there's snow on the ground and the heater roars, so I'll will wait a bit to tally the gas mileage.
But, how does the gas mileage readout on the dash work? In the old days manifold vacuum did it, but I'm sure engineers can do better than that today.
And, of the Accord's ability to save fuel, how much can be credited to the engine management system? I can run on three cylinders more often than I use the supplemental electric.
Nice these days to have a chain rather than a belt turning the cams (says my dealer). True?
Richard B.
Ciolorado
a chain drive is better then a belt drive. you don't have the same chance of belt slipping.
and your overall system including reducing active cylinders is pretty good too. i guess you really have a tri-brid?
i guess only honda can speculate on what the elctric contribution is to your overall mileage verses the reduced cylinder portion.
see ya
Mileage: Unfortuntely the manufacturer/dealer cannot be held to "EPA Estimated Mileage", because it is an estimate. That's a real bummer to read from two posts the mileage is well below the EPA number. I really wonder if the government is trying to promote hybrids by allowing the EPA to post overally optimistic numbers.
I am really happy with my 04 VW Passat 2.0L
it returns better than the EPA 38 highway, actually get 40-41mpg highway. Plus the torque of it's clean diesel motor is fun to drive. Price is a reasonable
$27k fully loaded.
You know people need to forget about HYBRIDS CARS and THINK DIESEL!!!!You can get the passat TDI 2.0 More Power Cost A HELL less the the Honda,Last longer,Get WAY BETTER MPG and it take 60,000 for the car to break in..But People are soo backward because thay think DIESEL are slow,stink and not at all powerfull.Well if that was the case why is soo hard to find a TDI VW DIESEl ..Because thay work and get the MPG if not better!.I live In Cary NC and I had a few TDI Diesel and I run Biodiesel Diesel in them.I ca drive the car @ 100 miles per hr. and still get 40 mpg..show me a car that can do that and not a 2 seater like the insite..and I drive a 03 Bug and I am 6'2 fit in it just fine make a great car to travel in...People Think Diesel for get the HYBRID CRAP Does not work in the long run.!!!Wake Up and Burn the BEAN!!BIODIESEL I can get 740 mls per tank wost was 715 on a 15gal tank! I get 45 to 48 city .50 + on the high way ....
Diesel doesn't make sense to everyone, as hybrids do not make sense for everyone either. To act as if either one is the best type of car for each and every person is ignorant. For example, so people don't like spewing out more (possibily carcinogenic) particulate emissions and nitrous oxide (that contributes to smog). Now perhaps biodiesel eliminates this emission issues, I don't know. I do know that biodiesel is not avialable in many areas of the country and that diesel is more expensive in some areas, at least partially eating up possible fuel efficiency benefits?
BTW, perhaps you have some proof that "hybrids don't work in the long run?"
The choice between diesel and gas-electric hybrid definitely depends on your commute. In city driving, hybrids are great, but OTR, I wouldn't have anything but a diesel. Oddly enough, I have a diesel and my daily commute is about 3.7mi of stop and go. Go figure. ;) I guess I do take my fair share of road trips though.
The question of particulate matter is not always as simple as A emits more than B. It is certainly carcinogenic, but the size of particulate matter is important also. Large particulate matter(diesel) usually falls to the ground quickly, or is caught by you body's natural defenses(mucus, hair, cough, etc). Small particulate matter(gasoline, also carcinogenic) is more likely to find its way into your lungs.
NOx is an issue for smog, but it depends on certain conditions. Some scientists now think they see an effect called "weekend smog." As I understand it, this is where smog is actually more prevalent on the weekends because there is less NOx in the air. More time and research will tell if this is real or not. Hey, you never know... they used to think the world was flat!
By saying "hybrids don't work," I think the earlier poster was looking at longevity(and costs). Right now, the inital cost premium of a hybrid is more than that of a diesel powertrain. Then you have the batteries. Eventually they will need replacement, and at what cost(replacement, disposal, and pollution)? It might be just the same as any other regular maintenance, but what happens if it comes out to be far more than that? You have yourself a throw-away car.
Or maybe he was just saying that for most people, they don't get the highly touted EPA numbers. Diesels on the other hand, are spot on, if not slightly better for most people.
I don't have a problem with hybrids, I'm just skeptical of their ability to live up to the hype(especially after seeing what most people are getting for mileage), and confused at why there is so much emphasis on them when diesels are proven technology and readily available.
I'll delay judgement on the Accord Hybrid until they are present in greater numbers, but there is one question I have for Honda: Why not use some of the technology from the this hybrid on your other cars?
I understand this car has advanced weight-saving techniques used, along with the ability to run on less than 6 cylinders while cruising. Why not do that on the normal V6? Or the 4cyl cars? I think the answer is because that's where a lot of the fuel savings is found, maybe moreso than the hybrid aspect.
Ok, I think that's enough. See ya at the pumps(from the other side ;)!
I've had diesels and now have a hybrid. One factor that hasn't been mentioned so far is the repair frequency and long-term reliability of cars made by Honda, VW and Toyota. After looking at Consumer's Reports, a hybrid semed like a better choice for me.
In reply to Carol stating " I filled up with less than 13 gallons, but the tank is supposed to hold 17.1." that does seem very odd. It should be the same gas tank as every other Accord. If it were my car, I'd fill it up and be 100% certain it was topped off. Then I'd drive until it shows it's nearly empty and put my 1-gallon gas can in the trunk and drive it either until it runs out entirely or the fuel alert light comes on. That way you know you've used all the gas in the tank.
In reply to Richard stating:
----------------------------
But, how does the gas mileage readout on the dash work? In the old days manifold vacuum did it, but I'm sure engineers can do better than that today.
And, of the Accord's ability to save fuel, how much can be credited to the engine management system? I can run on three cylinders more often than I use the supplemental electric.
Nice these days to have a chain rather than a belt turning the cams (says my dealer). True?
--------------------------
Modern engines calculate how much fuel they use by measuring fuel pressure and applying that to a flow map of what each injector uses for any given pulse width, then just adding up all the injections that it has commanded the injectors to fire. They test all this stuff in the lab for about a thousand test hours then compare against real world findings until they get the ECU to match the real world fuel consumption. It's typically extremely accurate.
Honda did release a bunch of information about how much fuel mileage gain there was to each of the features that are uniqe to the Accord Hybrid in their press pack. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the press pack, but Car and Driver posted a summary stating how much of a percentage was accountable to each tweak for city and highway driving. It averaged out to about 40% of the improvement over the regular V6 being all the non-hybrid tweaks, such as running on 3 cylinders and small improvements in the aerodynamics.
Car and Driver also did a comparo with the following three vehicles a couple months ago:
Toyota Echo
VW Jetta Turbodiesel
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic Hybrid
The Jetta actually got worse gas mileage than both hybrids while being less responsive and less fun to drive than either of them. It was better than the Echo, but the Echo is a POS anyway. The other limitation is that the most powerful turbodiesels only have about 100 horsepower compared to the 255 that the Accord Hybrid has, and the Accord is far cleaner and doesn't smell bad like a diesel. Biodiesel is only available at about 0.03% of fueling stations compared to diesel which is available at around 30%.
i got one and joined www.accord-hybrid.net
all you guys do the same!
Does anyone know if the tax deduction for the honda accord hybrid will go into effect for tax year 2004? I just bought a honda accord hybrid in dec 2004.
hey i joined www.accord-hybrid.net too!
fyi honda accord has been added to irs list for tax deduction as of feb 9 2005
i have had my honda hybrid for about 2 months and have already taken in to the dealer both the IMA indicator light and the battery recharge indicator light went on for no apparent reason
I was told this is not unusual with such a computerized car. They ran a diagnostic on it and found nothing. Just a computer malfunction is what I was told. Nevertheless I was very dissappointed with the whole ordeal. This is my first Honda. I am thinking I should have stuck to Nissan. Never had any problems with my altima.
M
First of all, a correction on the HP figures of VW diesels. In N. America, our Passat has 134 hp. That may seem "weak" compared to a 255 horse Honda. But it also has 247 lb-ft of torque peaking at just 1900 rpm. For most people, in real-world (ie, not 0-60 Car and Driver sprints), torque makes the car more flexible and driveable.
As for mileage, all I can say is that on my 105 km (one-way) daily commute, done at 75-80 mph, with the last 20 km or so in stop-and-go traffic, I have consistently, through the winter months, averaged 35 mpg with our Passat. For a car that retailed for about $28k US. The TDI option cost a whopping $350 more over an automatic gas Passat.
Our Jetta TDI fares even better and averages an easy 45 mpg in daily driving.
As I pointed out elsewhere I have yet to see a solid economic case made for a hybrid unless there are tax incentives.
As for emmissions, taking into consideration the refining of the fuel, I believe that a diesel will do better than a hybrid for greenhouse emmissions (namely, CO2) whereas a hybrid will do better for particulates and NOx.
Mike G.
I guess what we need is a hybrid diesel.
Car and Driver may not have liked the Jetta much, but Popular Science did a comparison of eight diesel and hybrid cars. I believe it was the Liberty CDI vs. the Ford Escape Hybrid, Jetta TDI vs. Prius, and Mercedes E-class CDI vs. Honda Accord Hybrid. They liked the technological stuff on the Prius, but they also found the Jetta TDI fun to drive. I'm surprised they didn't check out the Honda Civic Hybrid, IMO, it would have been a better comparison to the Jetta. They found the mileage difference between the Prius and the Jetta to be fairly small, at least when they drove them.
I'm not surprised that Car and Driver wouldn't like the Jetta TDI that much. Most of these magazines are biased in favor of performance cars. And the engine in the Jetta is hardly a performance engine. But it does get you from point A to B without using alot of fuel.
On a side note, Gran Turismo 4 (Playstation 2 game) has a Toyota Prius as a raceable car. You can buy the 2002 or the 2004 Prius. Rumor has it that the Honda Civic Hybrid is buried within the game, and I have also seen the Insight (It costs 21,900 credits).You can even see your MPG meter while you drive the Prius, and it also simulates the electric battery, regen braking and the synergy drive nicely (the display looks and works just like when I drove one). I only get a 0-60 of 14 seconds, though, for a stock car, which is not going to win any of the races (so I drove it for a while, then sold it). You cannot soup it up much, which is a bummer; a hybrid racecar could easily beat a conventional car with a large enough battery and electric motor.
Another note about diesel hp that I forgot to mention above. A poster said that the most powerful turbodiesels have only about 100 hp. I mentioned the Passat at 134 hp. The Mercedes CDI available in the N. America has 200 hp. The Liberty CRD has, if I'm not mistaken, 160 hp. The Touareg V10 has 310 hp and 555 lb-ft of torque! Admittedly however the latter is not really intended for fuel economy.
In Europe, BMW, VW and Mercedes have turbodiesels ranging from 90 to 200 hp. TDIs of 150 hp are common over there. Low-sulphur diesel after 2006 will permit a wider choice in N. America.
The 200 hp Mercedes CDI is rated at only 1 or 2 mpg less on the highway than my 134 hp Passat.
IF our goal is to reduce dependency on fossil fuels while reducing greenhouse emissions, I maintain that diesels are the quickest way to achieve this. They are proven technology and will be much cheaper to maintain (no batteries!) than hybrids over the long haul.
I do think however that hybrids have their place, especially in the city where smog is a greater issue. But for anyone having to do serious highway miles, hybrids are not the answer, at least not with the current state of the technology.
How much of a load are you carrying in your trunk?
Are you using the "ECON" button for your climate control? Have you been monitoring your tire pressure? Each or all of these things can have an impact.
The reason why the Honda Accord Hybrid has such odd (and pretty poor) city/highway mpg figures compared to the Toyota Prius is very simple: the Accord is only just barely a hybrid by the skin of its teeth, as you can tell easily from the 15 HP of its electric motor vs the 67 HP of the electric motor on the Prius.
If you reduce the size of the electric motor in a hybrid far enough, it becomes just a token gesture. The Accord's electric motor isn't quite a token gesture and it certainly does help quite a bit, but it's getting perilously close to being token.
The electric motor in the Prius provides 88% as much power as its gas engine (67 / 76 HP), whereas in the Accord Hybrid it provides only 6% (15 / 240 HP). Not surprisingly then, the Honda's mpg figures don't look much like what you'd expect from a hybrid vehicle at all.
Clearly the Prius and the Accord hybrids are entirely different kettles of fish, belonging to different pigeon holes within the hybrid spectrum.
While it's early days in the industry, I hope it's clear to environmentally concerned buyers that a large electric-to-gas power ratio is the key to making an environmentally meaningful hybrid purchase. While I am a happy Accord (non-hybrid) owner, I have to acknowledge that Honda's 15 HP of electric power just isn't adequate, environmentally speaking.
I think we need industry-wide categories of hybrid based on the electric-to-gas ratio employed, to avoid people buying not quite what they really intended. In particular, it needs to be clear to Joe Public when a particular hybrid is unable to drive under pure electric power alone, as many would consider that a "token" hybrid design.
I'm in the market for a new Honda Civic Hybrid, and I was wondering if anyone knows about any major changes Honda is planning for their 2006 model.
I bought a honda accord hyrbrid in March and was able to talk to Dealer down to 27.5k. The dealers will come down in price if you haggle with them.
I drive about 35 miles to work everyday and I on average get about 30-33 mpg even when accelerating quite quickly. I was even able to get 39mpg out of it a few times.....really it all depends on traffic. The more stop and go you driving you do the drastic difference you will see in fuel economy. This car is definitely not meant for great fuel economy in a city.
I now have 7500 miles on my Accord hybrid. I drive to and from work about 40 miles each day. On those trips- 55 mph, mostly rural and only 5 stops - I average about 35 mpg. If I am working at it , I can stretch it to about 40. In more urban driving (not really city with lots of stops) I'll average around 31. I have found that I pay close attention to when the engine shuts off 3 cylinders and try to get to that mode as often as possible. If I drive to and from the store, before the car has warmed-up, it never enters that mode, and I end up getting closer to the low 20's. On the Highway at 70 I do get 38. The only thing that I've been disappointed with is the noise cancelling that often doesn't work.
By the way, here in Michigan the Accord Hybrid can be had for 27,500. I haven't seen another in the 3 months since I got mine.
I get between 27 and 31 in town. 27 if I get froggy on occasion. I drove to VA Beach from Stafford VA twice (170 miles one way). I averaged 39 MPG with one passenger. Compared to my old 2000 Accord 6 cylinder (200 HP) of 18 in town and 26 hwy, this is significant.
A solo trek averaged 41 MPG over a 50 mile stretch.
There is a fine-line between 6 cylinder and 3 cylinder mode and requires some practice.
This 6/3 threshold is lowered as more weight is added (more passengers). Car pooling to work with 3 passengers rendered only 33 MPG. Stop and go reduces to 30 MPG. Air conditioning also causes the shift to the 6 cylinder mode sooner (the electric compressor seems to only kick in when in the Auto Stop mode).
Help! I picked up an accord hybrid last week. I put about 200 miles on it so far 90% high way. So far the mpg meter has not gone above 26.1 mpg. (Driving solo with the AC on and cruise on). On the way home this evening I even tried setting the cruise to 60 and leaving the AC off.
I am missing something here? Are the batteries not included??? I am REALLY unhappy with this situation. The dealer says relax and to put a 1,000 miles on it.
What a crock!
How are you guys getting 39mpg on the highway?
thanks!
I agree with Dan, I got me an Hybrid about 1 1/2 weeks ago and got about 630 miles on it. About 550 of those miles are highway miles. I've tried making drives from San Diego to Los Angeles with A/C on and off and they MPG has not gone over 23. I've been reading all over of other folks getting way better mileage and their tips. I'm hoping its just break in time. Dealer admits that this is their first hybrid accord sale and they are just as stumped as me. Heck I learn more on the forums than from them.
why isn't there a hybrid diesel...seems like 100 mpg wouldn't be out of the question? BTW, saw an Insight in germany...sticker said 3 liters/100km (~63 mpg)...i'll have to get out the calculator if anyone ever puts a hybrid diesel on the road ;)
why isn't there a hybrid diesel...seems like 100 mpg wouldn't be out of the question? BTW, saw an Insight in germany...sticker said 3 liters/100km (~63 mpg)...i'll have to get out the calculator if anyone ever puts a hybrid diesel on the road ;)
my HCH went from 51 mpg avg in flat sunny FL (though A/C was a MUST) to 45 mpg (4.7l/100km) in cold (effects battery pack) hilly germany...really gutless (to the point of stalling or having to over-rev off the line) when the big hills eat up the battery pack...also, never saw the battery pack get full to the point of not charging going downhill in good old FL. of course the lack of speed limits here may have something to do w/ my poorer mpg ;) ...darn thing is regulated to 107mph (same as my wife's prius)...bavarian (diesel) speedwagons pass us like we were standing still...prius really get's bad mpg at speed (like 29 mpg) vs the 40ish i can get away with...must be that continuously variable transmission of hers (i opted for a stick).
Diesel-electric hybrid burning biodiesel. . . my dream car. Big trucks already have it, why not us?
check out dieselsecret.com 46cents/gallon fuel!!!
-jonathan
I purchase my HAH one month ago. When I first got the car I was very disappointed in the MPG, usually getting in the low 20 range. I am now getting 28.8 to 29.1 mpg driving to and from work, and in the low 40s (40-42) on the highway.
I traded my 2005 Nissan Armada (10 mpg) just before gas prices went through the roof, and I am saving money every time I fill the HAH up.
The HAH is very different from other cars that claim the title as hybrid. With the HAH I can squeel the front tires when I take off from a fresh green light, or I can take off really slow and get good gas milage. With the Prius, and other automobiles that have been mentioned,you have no choice but to take off really slow.
I also like the ability to speak to the comuter. There are some things that make the voice "activated" computer a real pain, but compaired to the $50,000 nissan armada that I had, the HAH computer wins.
If you are planning to purchase a HAH, really consider purchasing the navi computer system.
If gas prices continue to rise, I will be purchasing the onda Civic Hybrid.
As far as emmissions hybrid vs gas or other types, really don't care. Too much hype about "green house" gasses, global warming and the like... it all sounds like chicken little to me.
I wonder if Honda dealers offer extended warranty for hybrid components. Factory will cover some of them for 8 years/80,000 miles. After 80K such repair is very expensive. It can cost $3000 to replace hybrid battery or hybrid voltage converter/inverter each !
Anyone heard anything about extra coverage for hybrid components ?
We bought a Honda civic hybrid in May of 2005, we are averaging 31 to 37 miles per gallon. When we called Honda they told us that their is a break in period of 3750 miles, where that number came from I have no idea. We love the way the car drives and looks but the gas mileage is extremely disappointing. Honda has also checked it out to be sure nothing is wrong, at least they said that nothing was wrong but we need to wait. Has anyone else heard of a breakin period and what numbers were you given?
I drive about 30 miles a day each way to work. My Accord gets about 44 mpg to work and 42.5 on the way back. The major difference is an elevation change of ~100-150 feet. The half mile or so of off highway driving at either end can drag the whole trip mpg down to around 36-38 mpg. My best mpg was 65 mpg on a 3 hour trip back from the mountains.
Just to Chime in I recently purchased a 2006 Honda Hybrid and am currently getting 6.0 L/100km or 39 mpg. I was hoping it would be closer to 5.0 L/100 or 47 mpg.... so I am too a little dissapointed but I am only working on my second tank of gas.
I hope the previoius poster is correct in respect to the breakin period.
Having said that I truly enjoy the look and feel of the vehicle and am not dissappointed with the vehicle. I do beleive its the most functional and best looking vehicle in the hybrid class.
I'm in a similar situation as Eric, got a new 05 accord in Sep, and am only getting 26mpg average. It has about 5500 miles. How can some owners get in the 30s and some stuck with this low 26mpg.
Can someone shed some light? Or is the Accord only a gesture-hybrid at 6% only electric, as Y. Roebuck points out. Did I get tricked by Honda?
I would like to throw something into this discussion.
According to DOE, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm, on 12/22/05 there are only 4 vehicles available in the US that achieve combined average city/highway of 40 mpg or better. And, it has been reported that 2006 may be the last year for the 2 Honda Insights. Note that none of these vehicles are built in the US.
There are 57 vehicles available outside the US that achieve 45mpg(US), or better, combined average city/highway. Of these 57 vehicles, 15 (26%) are by DaimlerChrysler, Ford, GM, and Toyota. VW has 10 (17%). This data is available at http://www.40mpg.org/pdfs/120105_CSI_foreign_fuel_efficient_vehicle_chart.xls
What is wrong with this picture????!!!
The absence of this class of vehicle is dragging down the Auto Industry, MPG, Consumer, Environment, Economy, and National Security. At the same time, it is driving up all Fuel Prices.
The following questions arises! Are either the Federal Legislative or Executive branches aware? If yes, do they care?
These top 57 vehicles should already meet safety and emissions standards of either Europe or Japan. EU emissions are currently at Euro step IV.
Proposal
Congress should pass emergency legislation to waive, for only 24 months, import restrictions on gas and diesel light vehicles that meet EU and Japanese emission and safety standards AND get 45 mpg(US), or more, combined average city/highway. These vehicles should be grandfathered upon import.
I estimate that for each of these high mpg vehicle put on the road, there will be about a 2 gallon/day fuel savings.
My intention is to stimulate discussion and hopefully some degree of rational problem solving since the government, industry, and/or the financial communities haven't adequately addressed/resolved these issues.
It is further hoped that you will find the concepts and strategies of sufficient value to share them with your peers, other media, government, and industry contacts.
References:
“40MPG.ORG WEEKLY UPDATE December 1, 2005” http://www.40mpg.org/weeklyupdate.cfm
"Over 35 mpg not in US - http://www.40mpg.org/pdfs/120105_CSI_foreign_fuel_efficient_vehicle_chart.xls
I bought my HAH 2005 a year ago, and have logged in over 12K miles. Like many new owners, I was puzzled by the 13 gals less when the empty warning light is on. I even took it to the dealer after a couple months. They told me it was designed that way, nothing wrong. But the design seems flaw, it is too early a warning when there are still 4 gallons of gas in the tank! I'm a little getting used to it now. Everytime when the gas warning light's on, I wait for another 50 to 60 miles (my averaging of 25 per gallon) till I hit the next gas station. Speaking about milage, I'm, like most of the owners, very disappointed. My city average has been 22 mpg. That is not good at all. On highway, the average is 31. Still no way near as claimed by Honda the 37 MPG. The Consumers Report published an issue several months ago. It reinforced the doubts the the inflated claim is true. We hope Honda would improve and try to be more realistic.
I have no other problems with my HAH. Enjoy a lot the GPS navigation, but had to pay the full price tag $32K a year ago. Some folks in this forum said they paid only $27.5K. They were lucky.
By the way, I just received a Battery Software Update recall from Honda. So I've made an appointment with my dealer on Jan 09 to get the update, in Mass. Honda is still fixing up their mistakes.
Victor Dec 30, 2006
You can't blame Honda for making inflated mileage claims. The EPA ratings are strictly regulated by the Federal government and not determined by Honda. Honda does not make any claims about mileage, the federal government does. Also, keep in mind, most cars (ie. non-hybrids) do not get close to their EPA ratings. The EPA ratings are just there to make sure consumers can compare apples to apples.
I recently bought a honda accord and the mileage is around 30. I am a honda lover but am a little dissapointed with the low mpgs. But then again mine was only 25,000$ right before all the 2006 models came out. A 2006 accord v-6 with leather was more exspensive than the hybrid so i said, what the heck. Your definetly not going to find anything better from any american or european car makers. Honda's will last much much longer, plus who knows how much more the price of gas will rise with Bush in office.
I am about to buy the 2006 accord hybrid and have read your comments with some concern about the lower MPG than advertised. However, it is a great car to drive and if I can have comfort and performance while getting somewhat better mileage and ultra low emissions than I think it's worth it. I am also interested in the nav system. Can anyone comment on that? Is it worth it? Are the maps and locations current? Does the voice activation really work consistantly or is it frustrating?
I got my 15,000 miles check-up from a Honda dealership yesterday. It was an exceptional experience that I have ever received. The service consultant was professional and courteous, he told me upfront the exact cost, which was $121. They offer a courteous ride service for within 10 miles. The driver and the ride captain were pleasant and friendly. I even got a ride service back to the dealer when it was time to pick up my car. The car was very nicely serviced. I was presented a complementary coupon for a full car wash from the dealer’s service department. It is not just the car you love that you are buying, excellent service oriented dealers are a very important factor to consider as well. Honda is superior to Mercedes in all fronts. This is a definite proof.
The mileage I’m getting has not been improving. It is 20.7 city and 31 highway. Averaging 27 to 28 after a trip including some city driving and expressway driving connecting between two cities. Thanks to Craig’s comment above, the posted mileages were not set by Honda, but rather by the relatively out dated EPA testing standards are responsible for the difference of actual results versus tested results. The Consumer Reports are right. It is fun to drive the powerful Hybrid. The acceleration is quick and confident. It is always easily to reach 80mph in a few seconds when I tried to pass. Maybe that was one reason why my mileage was low!
The navigation system is a gem. It is very good. It has helped me a lot, even though I thought I had good sense of directions. The streets in the Greater Boston areas are in detail and informative. It is sensitive and it recalculates quickly the time and the mileage required to get there when I take an impromptu alternate route. The streets and roads information is current. For example, the I-93 major highway through down town Boston revamped to a new alignment recently, and it has the new roads shown. Although some new ramps are not shown as should have been updated, but it is irrelevant at all because you are just driving through them. For $2,000, I still would recommend it.
I have no encountered Rachel’s problem.
Just bought a Prius hybrid, right at list price.
The panels estimating your mileage apparently estimate low at first, but maybe the car will "run-in" 10 mpg lower, later. It begins with 60.3 mpg in-town.
Unfortunately, the Accord Hybrid WAS NOT designed for fuel economy, just preformance. That is why the Accord Hybrid has the most powerful engine in the Accord family, and just gets only a "smidge" better MPG than a regular Accord. All this yet it has awesome acceleration.
I don't know what Honda has done with the 2006 Accord Hybrids, but the previous models made buyers "think" they were buying green that came with preformance, but did not. And guess what, the extra power and IMA system will cost you...greatly.
P.S. If you don't believe me, you might want to check out last months' issue of Consumer Reports. It provided solid evidence to what I have said all along.
Perhaps someone could post the consumer report...
I just wanted to post my results of my 2005 HAH. I am averaging 33+. I live in Va and communte about 26 miles to work. Its not light traffic, so its not a trumped up highway gas mileage.
When I did the math for fuel economy verses purchase price vs features... I ended up getting the 2006 non-hybrid Honda Civic EX w/ Navigation.
The Civic EX (5 Speed AT) w/ Nav comes fully loaded and my real world gas milage is at 33MPG. Moveover, the gas milage is very consistant, even with lots of city driving.
Since the Civic EX w/ Nav is $22,000.00, it probably the best daily commuter car for the buck, and the only thing it doesn't have feature wise is leather.
I've been considering the replacing our second car, a 1998 Jeep, with a newer fuel efficient car. (Almost anything is going to save up money in gas, it's more a question of just how much the car will cost verses its fuel economy verses the features.)
The real issue I've got with the Hybrid Accord is: Why spend several thousdand dollars more when it'll be a wash financially if you buy a "normal" Accord, and the normal variant of the Accord will not be a low production number version that may have problems being repaired or securing replacement parts for.
I had this problem when I owned a 1998 Honda Prelude. Honda only sold about 25,000 Preludes per model year for 5 years in the USA. As such, dealers were not familiar with the problems the car typically had, since an adverage dealer might see 4 to 5 of them a MONTH for repairs. More over, when a major item such as a transmission or engine would have problems, Honda would not have the parts in stock. As an example, when my transmission died under warranty, I had to wait a MONTH for a repalcement to arrive from Japan. (I'm not kidding.)
This is the reason we bought the 2006 Civic non-hybrid. Honda will sell 100's of thousands of them, and parts and repair experience will be plentiful, along with the 33MPG and regular gas.
Not very adventurous are you Gerhard?
I have here some update about my car, Honda...I hope this might help and give some ideas...=)
The new, 2007 Honda CR-V is more powerful, more stylish and more comfortable than the previous-generation 2006 models. Its new suspension geometry delivers an improved ride and better, more responsive handling.
The engine, still an inline four cylinder, employs variable intake valve timing to optimize horsepower and torque for acceleration and cruising speeds. The transmission is a new, five-speed automatic. Real Time all-wheel drive is offered on all three models. The U.S. EPA rates the front-wheel drive CR-V at 23/30 city/highway miles per gallon and the all-wheel drive at 22/28.
Thus, buyers looking for peppy performance, snazzy styling and easier financing have better choices. Its Honda fuel filter and other accessories like Honda turn signal in their excellent condition...But for Honda loyalists looking for something better than their current CR-V or an SUV to step up into from their Civic, the '07.
I have a 2005 Honda Accord Hybird and drove it this morning, turned it off and boom, nothing! No power to anything, the remote dosnt work, the car will not start, nothing. Any suggestions? I dont have the owners manual to look anything up and dont want to rush it to the dealership yet.
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