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High mileage driving and hybrid

Created August 9, 2007, at 9:54 am by ricker1

Hello,

I'm considering buying a HCH '07 or '08. Typically I drive almost all highway, 140 miles a day round trip back and forth to work. All highway speeds are at 75-90 MPH. We live in a part of the country with moderate temps ... sometimes -10 in the winter, sometimes upper 90's in the summer. Typically I drive about 40,000-50,000 miles a year. My current car is an '02 Mazda Millenia which is a good car, but the gas mileage isn't the best.

1. Would a hybrid be a good choice for this type of driving? Would I be better off getting a standard Civic?

2. Would I be unreasonable expecting to get 150,000-200,000 out of a HCH?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Rick

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4 years ago

I think the HCH would be a good move. My HCH consistently achieves better MPG on highway driving than street driving. What your actual MPG will be depends, of course, on your driving style. If you could lower your commute speed to 60 to 65 MPH, my guess is overall MPG should be about 42MPG.
Will the HCH last 150K? I cannot say with certainty, but looking at Honda's track record leads me to believe it will. Consider a 2007 HCH, as dealers want to move inventory to make way for 08 inventory. Tax credit (if you qualify) is still available; credit is $2,100.

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Senior Member

4 years ago

Absolutely, no question. A hybrid would be great for you. Either the Prius or the HCH would be great. I've ridden in Prius taxis with well over 150K miles and I'm pretty sure the HCH will do that many as well. Go with whatever strikes your fancy and I'm sure you'll be very happy.

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Junior Member

4 years ago

you know, I might have to disagree with you guys in one respect. The OP is driving 90 mph? I dont think you will get that great of a mpg, you will be constantly stressing the engine. Take a test drive and see what your FE is going 90 mph vs the regular civic with a lot more horses.

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4 years ago

I agree with the above post in that I disagree with the first posters.

A hybrid is best in stop-go driving. If you are driving long distances, the electric part of the car does nothing, it is dead weight. Honestly a diesel might be a better option here, or just a non-hybrid high-MPG vehicle.

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4 years ago

Let me support my rationale that a hybrid is still better, even for 90 mph driving than a non-hybrid (I admit that a diesel would also be good).
Todays hybrids have an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) that is too weak to provide satisfactory acceleration when compared to other cars sold in the US. I believe that it does, however, have sufficient power to do 90 mph in straight and level driving (I won't admit to any first hand knowledge of this fact :-)) and it will still get better mpg than a comparable non-hybrid car with only a larger ICE.
I agree with AirplanePilot that, a hybrid is best in stop and go driving, however, it is still better on the highway than the pure ICE with the same engine. They don't sell pure ICE cars in the US with anemic engines as small as those in the hybrids but that's ok, you'd need the electric drive in order to get any kind of safe acceleration when you do need it.
I see nark's suggestion, however, I must disagree. An ICE is generally at its most efficient state when it is being driven hard, therefore, you'll see that a small ICE near its redline will get better mpg than a larger ICE at the same speed but not working so hard.
I should, however, add that constant driving at 90 mph would be much safer with high temperature/speed tires. I don't know what the ratings are for the OEM tires but I doubt they're rated for 90 mph continuously. If you're in a state where 90 mph driving is legal (or close to a legal 75 mph), I assume it's a western state where temperatures in the summer get very hot. This could be very important. You ABSOLUTELY don't want a blow-out at 90 mph.

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4 years ago

Rick:

The biggest issue is the speed. Anything above 60 MPH is going to kill your fuel mileage regardless of the car you drive. PERIOD.
If you can lower the speed for those higher numbers to something lower then you get maximum FE savings out of any car.

Now lets talk about the HCH-II:
It has one of the lowest coefficients of drag of most cars on the road today at 0.27. Most cars on the road are on the 0.3X and even 0.4X range which makes the HCH-II far more efficient than many other cars when cutting through the air. So for comparisons sake, you are still better off on a Civic Hybrid than you would be in a regular civic if all you want is to "save fuel". You will also pollute much, much less too.

The only hybrid system that is better for Stop-and-Go is the HSD system available in the Toyota hybrids (Ford Escape and the Altima also share on this trait). Conversely, the Honda hybrid system is better for highway driving and definitely helps over a conventionally powered gas version of the car as the hybrid functions are fully available even at those speeds.

Now, lets recap: At speeds above 60MPH any car will NOT meet the EPA ratings for highway driving. This applies to the HCH-II too. If you cannot lower the speeds, then the HCH-II will still offer you better mileage than a regular civic would... not only because of its better aerodynamics but also because of its extremely high CVT gearing which helps keep the RPMS lower than what a 5 speed regular Civic can.

Cheers;

MSantos

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4 years ago

Good points, but I disagree with MSantos. Yes, the HCH is better for highway driving, but then what's the point of the IMA system? In theory, the HCH's IMA recaptures energy otherwise lost during braking, and reapplies it during acceleration. Therefore, a smaller, more anemic, engine can be used (except for the HAH-joke).

On highway driving, however, once you get up to speed (accelerate), then the IMA system practically sits idle, unless you must slow down or speed up (to pass).

Personally, if Honda still made the Civic HX, I'd recommend that car to you easily.

I do agree with ex-EV1 driver, in that despite not using the IMA system to its potential, you will at least see a better fuel economy than no other non-hybrid/diesel car will match.

Whatever route you choose though, please make sure MPGs are near the top of your list in your next vehicle purchase.

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Junior Member

4 years ago

I dont know ev1, from my experience that doesnt seem true when you are talking about mpg. For instance, when I drive at 70 mph and I rev at ~2100 rpms on a slight downhill I get about 80 mpg. When I reach the flats and the revs increase by a small 200 rpms, I get 50 mph. When accelerating at 3500 rpms, I am probably in the teens. I've driven 80 mph once on fairly flat road, maybe slight uphill and I was getting about 25-30 mpg (hard to tell with the mpg meter). I cant even imagine what you will be getting at 90 mph. Now the regular civic wont be reving as hard, so I imagine it will be seeing a smaller percentage drop in FE vs the HCHII.

MSantos: The drive in drag coefficient between a regular civic and an HCHII is very small considering the only difference is the rims and tires. This shouldnt impact FE that much, 2-3 mpg at most if that.

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Senior Member

4 years ago

nark;13451 wrote:
...The drive in drag coefficient between a regular civic and an HCHII is very small considering the only difference is the rims and tires. This shouldnt impact FE that much, 2-3 mpg at most if that.

Other than the lightweight and aerodynamic wheels, the HCH has been given several other low CoD tweaks, such as the underbody aero panels, the wheel well covers at all four wheels, and the rear spoiler. In total these tweaks formally place the HCH at .27.

The regular civic has a CoD of .31 (and worse depending on the wheel style and other body treatments), which is already very good when compared to most cars in its EPA class. For all it is worth, a Prius II sits at .26 and if memory serves me right the dearly departed Insight sat at .25.
So along with the Prius, the HCH undoubtedly one of the most aerodynamic vehicles most people can buy.

Cheers;

MSantos

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Senior Member

4 years ago

nark;13451 wrote:
Now the regular civic wont be reving as hard, so I imagine it will be seeing a smaller percentage drop in FE vs the HCHII.

You may be right that the HCH shows a larger percentage drop in FE between 65 mph and 90 mph than a conventional Civic, however, the big question is what is the comparison in FE between the HCH and a conventional Civic at 90 mph. The HCH will certainly be reving hard at 90 mph and clearly harder than a conventional Civic will be, however, (and I have no evidence to back this up) I'm pretty sure the HCH won't be out of its 'economical band'.
As MSantos points out, however, the extra drag from going at 90 mph is going to overshadow a whole lot of other things. This whole argument may be trumped by other things at 90 mph - and I'm not prepared to do any experiments to verify.

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4 years ago

ex-EV1 driver;13463 wrote:
You may be right that the HCH shows a larger percentage drop in FE between 65 mph and 90 mph than a conventional Civic, however, the big question is what is the comparison in FE between the HCH and a conventional Civic at 90 mph. The HCH will certainly be reving hard at 90 mph and clearly harder than a conventional Civic will be, however, (and I have no evidence to back this up) I'm pretty sure the HCH won't be out of its 'economical band'.
As MSantos points out, however, the extra drag from going at 90 mph is going to overshadow a whole lot of other things. This whole argument may be trumped by other things at 90 mph - and I'm not prepared to do any experiments to verify.

I agree, the HCHII should still get better FE IMO, but it might be not much more than the regular civic. Dont know if anyone has done these tests before.

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Junior Member

4 years ago

Driving at 90mph? Dang, maybe I should keep my big truck if people on the roads are going to do that....

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