Flex-Fuel Hybrids

The Escape Hybrid is being modified by Ford to run E85. My concern with Ethanol, even at 10%, kills my MPG in my '05 FEH. Pure 87 octane works the best now. Hopefully, the newer Flex Fuel and E85 cars will not have a reduction in FE.

One other HCH owner here notice the same drop in MPG as I did. Both times I got gas with ethanol, the amount of gas mix was only around ~6 gallons to a 15 gallon tank. It took 3 tanks of pure gas before I could shake a 5mpg average loss. In my opinion, the oxigenated additive (alcohol) screws up the oxigen sensors to run the engine rich because of the loss of energy. It must take awhile for the senors to adjust back to pure 87 octane. It's like adding water to the tank of the FEH, and it's hard to clear it up.

In my case back then, it was not hard to get 45mpg, but the ethanol dropped that to 40mpg. Now that everything is cleared up, I can push the FEH over 70mpg on a short round trip of 20 miles. I can tell any change in the FEH FE in a matter of a few miles with the scangauge and Nav computer.

ex-EV1

After the hurricanes we had last year, I had to drive about 50 miles to get some supplies and top off my tank. Only put about six gallons in and notice that my mileage was hard to maintain on my return home. This went on for a few tanks of pure 87 octane for a flush. Thought I got contaminated fuel or something.

Second time was in December when my kids took the FEH to Disney World and got gas at a Citgo station on the turnpike. Same thing, about six gallons and the FEH acted the same way for about three tanks.

As far as the computer or PCM, they reacted to the oxigen sensors right away both times. As far as giving them time to adjust to the ethanol to improve mpg, those three tanks (really kept tring to delute it with adding 5-6 gallons at a time) amounted to a little over one full fill up. So it took 17-18 gallons and 700 miles to clear up.

The pure 87 octane may explain one reason why my mileage is so much better than most people's FEH. From my experience, ethanol would kill my averages if it was the only gas available here in So FL.

If you use E10 and your mileage is reduced by less than 10%, you're still coming out ahead.

E85, like I mentioned erler, usually results in about 15% lower mpg. Not bad considering you're using 85% less fuel.

For example, let's say I get 50 mpg on full gasoline and 40 mpg on E85, all on a 10-gallon tank (so E85 yields 20% lower mpg here). Gas lets me travel 500 miles, and E85 lets me travel 400 miles.

However, remember that only 1.5 gallons out of that E85 tank is actually gasoline, so I'm really getting 267 miles per gallon of GAS

Etahnol is used widely in Brazil, where they get their ethanol from sugar (I think it's sugar, I don't really remember).

They cut their need for oil almost completely.

Hi qq

OT - I have a program called Siteadvisor which looks at websites for safety. The one you just posted came up as unsafe, which may cause people viewing that site problems with security and unwanted downloads to their computers.

On topic - With the small percentage of ethanol I put in the tank, I think it was the oxigen sensors that went crazy causing the poor MPG (11-12%). If it was strickly because of the lost in energy, the MPG would have increased much sooner.

Two cars, but not yet available:

Ford Escape Hybrid FFV

Ford Reflex (Diesel-Electric Hybrid)

Isn’t it high time for car makers to think of something better then to run our cars on fossil fuel only. There are new cleaner burning fuel technologies out there! For details

http://www.path.to/WATER-AS-CAR-FUEL/

To save gas you can convert your car to run as a hydrogen cell fueled car that will increase your gas mileage dramatically and reduce emissions. Sounds emzaing it is being done as we speak

--------"Why don't they make the gas engine in hybrids flex-fuel? "----
All cars made should be Flex Fuel. We have past peak oil, oil is running out. Making a hybrid that cann't use another fuel is stupid--we are buying the hybrids because the OIL is running out you stupid jerks out there making the hybrids!!!!! It shouldn't take a genius to figure THAT out. E-85 is our only choice to replace gasoline. It is a good choice and a superior fuel, but not if you cann't use it. Brazil made flex fuel mandatory on all cars sold in Brazil many years ago. They also subsidized the production of ethanol from sugar cane for many years and required service stations to offer both gas and E-85 if they wanted to stay in business. Things went on about 50-50 for a long time when the price of gas was low. Then when the price of gas went up, and the energy crisis really hit---Brazilians just bought E-85 instead of gasoline. Today, most of the old gas pumps are E-85 with only a token gas pump at most stations for very old cars(and those are slowly disappearing also). There is no energy crisis and never was in Brazil---it passed unnoticed. The government TV ads promoting E-85 disappearing from TV caused more notice than the "energy crisis".

-------"They should also have some E85 stations in New Jersey."------

There is a plant being built in Soperton GA that will produce 100 million gallons/yr ethanol from logging and millwork wood waste. This plant was planned back in the 90's---however when the Bush Republicans moved in 2000 they blocked funding to build the plant for over 7 years---until the oil crisis got so bad and people got so mad that even THEY couldn't ignore the problem anymore. The plant is being built now. We need a LOT more ethanol than that to really make a difference in energy supply, but it is a start.
The price of E-85 will be spotty and not too competitive with gasoline to begin with because there won't be enough produced to be a serious competition to oil. However, as oil continues to decline in availability(increase in price) and ethanol production increases, the price difference between gasoline and ethanol will continue to grow wider. Then you will have a lot of people wishing they'd have gotten a flex fuel vehicle---generally the price is the same or only nominally more.

I think you are only wise to look for a flex fuel model. It costs little or nothing extra---and it might mean you aren't back to walking one day. Even if you don't like E-85 and would rather use gas---that's fine, you can---but if one day you NEED to start using E-85 because gasoline suddenly got too expensive or not available at all, that's fine, you can use E-85. Seems like really cheap insurance to me. Especially the way things are going with oil.

LOL---ok

---- "Granted cellulosic ethanol has a bit more promise than corn based but it still isn't clear that we have enough arable land on our planet or in our country to raise enough crops of any type to replace all our oil with ethanol."--------

Right now, PetroSun is producing 4.4 million gallons of biodiesel oil from saltwater algae in seawater holding ponds covering 1180 acres in Rio Hondo TX. B-100 is pressed out of the algae and used straight as produced. No further refining is necessary. Biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine with no modification whatever. Biodiesel replaces the need for crude oil accounting for costs of production, shipping and refining at the rate of 1 gal. bio relplaces the need for 2.3 gallons of crude oil.
We do not need to replace the entire amount we consume in crude oil now---we can do exactly the same things with 43% of present consumption.

Any conventional car can run on a mixture of up to 30% ethanol (E-30). Flex Fuel vehicles can run on either gasoline or any % of ethanol up to 85(E-85)---doesn't matter which, just put in whichever you want. Flex Fuel cars are being manufactured now and have been for 20 years. They cost the same or only minimally more than conventional. There are about 8 million flex fuel vehicles on the road now.

There is nothing wimpy or second rate about ethanol as a fuel. It is superior to petroleum gasoline and has an octane rating of 115. It is the only fuel allowed on the Indy Race Curcuit, 100% ethanol. That is not new though, alcohol has been used pretty much exclusively for 35 years. Nascar Curcuit uses only E-85. Indy racers have a 3.5 liter V-8 engine that typically generates 1200 - 1600 bhp. They routinely hit speeds of 240-260 in the straights.

Electric cars have been around for about 170 years. They still have the same problems that they have always had--limited range. Even if you have an extra battery pack that could be charging while you are driving, you'd still have to return home to change it out.

The only electric vehicles that make any real sense to me are hybrids. And when I do get a hybrid, will only be one that is either diesel or flex fuel, so that I can use biofuel.

EV1---I'm not trying to sound like I'm argueing one system over another here---my feeling is combine systems and use the best of each. Electric does have advantages, overcome it's problems(range) with a hybrid and VOILA!, we have a very versitile and technologically advanced vehicle.

The main thing that I like about electric which you didn't mention. Only one moving part, and the ability to seal it off from outside contaminants---which makes it extremely rugged and reliable, with an almost limitless life expectancy.

I agree with you.The most probable reason is the technology has not yet been developed or we are currently researching it.