Defective IMA and Honda Response
Created September 19, 2009, at 4:15 pm by MadCivicHybirdOwner
Civic Hybrid Battery IMA Problems
***UPDATE****
Sorry to report Honda Dealership are clearly aware of problem but "Honda doesn't know how to fix it." They say they (the dealerships) are frustrated too because they have already lost several dissatified customers because American Honda doesn't want to pay for the very expensive repairs needed. They went on to tell me the batteries are the know problem and the Honda software updates simply reduce the amount of the battery that is usable. WARNING - DON'T LET HONDA CRIPPLE YOUR HYBRID IMA WITH SOFTWARE UPDATES - THE CAR WILL NEVER RUN PROPERLY AGAIN. The told me to contact American Honda, who didn't even bother to return my call for two weeks. When I finally got someon on the phone then told me they had spoken to the dealership and said everything was normal. Honda stands for Liars and Cheats, Inc. No more Honda's for me!
DON'T BUY HONDA HYBRIDS!!!
DEFECTIVE HONDA CIVIC HYBRIDS PROBLEMS FAILURE DEFECT CRIPPLE IMA SOFTWARE RECALL
I'm using BBBAutoLine, which is a BBB run arbitration offered in your Honda Warranty book if you don't agree with American Honda. Honda had 14 days to respond and their waited all 14 days to say "normal." I'll let this group know how the arbitration goes.
ORIGINAL POST
Created August 18, 2009, at 1:04 am by MadCivicHybirdOwner
I have a 2007 HCH with 34,000 miles that has become unpredicable, unreliable and unsafe - and Honda knows about the problem but chooses not to fix it. The battery, especially after being in the heat, suddenly drops to no or one bar and the battery stops providing any assistance and won't charge properly either.
I can only guess it would cost too much to replace the battery and they have made a business decision not to fix my car. My car is driven in Florida, and as other posts here note, the batteries seem to be damaged by our summertime heat (I note the new Prius has a little solar panel that drives a small fan to keep the cabin (and battery pack?) cooler than the 100+ a car quickly heats to when parked in the Florida sun).
My local Honda Service Manager has told me this is a known problem and Honda doesn't know how to fix. He went on to say how frustrated he is because he has already lost three customers due to the problem. He also told me that he is not allowed to order me a new battery, even if he wanted to, without American Honda approval. He suggested there was nothing else he could do and I should contract American Honda Customer Service, which I did. They did not call me back for over a week and when they did, they asked for a couple of days more since they needed to talk to the dealer. Customer Service?
Does anyone know of a fix?
Has anyone who's had this problem had is satisfactorly dealt with by American Honda?
Does anyone know of a good class action lawyer.
DON'T BUY HONDA CIVIC HYBRID - BATTERIES ARE SERIOUSLY FLAWED AND WILL LEAVE YOU FINANCIALLY "SCREWED" SINCE YOU CAN'T SELL THE POORLY RUNNING CAR AND YOU CAN'T DRIVE IT EITHER.
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2 years ago
Florida- hense your problem. Heat and high humidity with self
contained electronics- spells disaster. Why Honda doesn't do
heat testing beyond CA is just poor design work.
2 years ago
I am having numerous problems with the honda civic hybrid including the following. Battery life, tires waring, and MPG. I have called and all they can say is that there is nothing that they can do about it.
2 years ago
Over 1 year of complete frustration. Air box was left open after oil change and 12v battery replaced due to a dead cell (which upon installing the tech ruined my positive cable connection). Car hasn't run the same since. Several complaints ignored by original dealer. IAT sensor blew after 3 months - replaced MAF sensor which did not solve the problem - draw on the engine, high rpm's, low power all of which would come and go. 2nd MAF sensor blew after 4 or 5 more months - same code 0113 - IAT sensor which is inside this. Have also replaced egr valve, 12v battery again, new gas cap, etc. Brought to another dealer 6 weeks ago - told me there were 5 open updates on my computer they did and car should be fine. Actually ran worse - now having more significant ima symptoms. They replaced the bad pos batt cable two weeks later and told me again the car was fine. Car was back to running extremely rough within a couple hundred miles and when I stopped back to tell the service department they told me 3 guys drove it and all said it was fine. Finally took video of car routinely redlining trying to go from 72-75mph with no power at all. Showed it to the service dept and they said they'd take it back in and have someone really drive it. Was told he'd be driving 35 miles to and fro another dealer on a highway. Was called later in the day and told the service manager drove vehicle and said there's nothing wrong. Meanwhile - car only had 30 more miles on it than when I left it. Apparently just another "crazy" customer who isn't happy with the way his hybrid "drives". Fact is, used to drive fine - averaged basically 40mpg all day long until service appointment at 39k. I'm now over 90k and since then been about 35.5 - 36 - comes and goes. Either way, this is not the same vehicle I purchased and Honda of America could give 2 craps about their customer and haven't had any luck with the 2 dealers I've been to so far. I'm an auto appraiser with significant knowledge and have several friends who are mechanics and not a one can figure out what is wrong with my car. This has without a doubt been the most frustrating and annoying experience of my life. My first Honda - certainly my last. Had better luck with a used Mercedes. Extremely disappointed in both Honda and it's product.
2 years ago
Sigh...
I've had the same problem, and had to get ready to go to court to get Honda to comply. For those who want to read my story, it's too long to post again here, please see:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f145abe/136
If the link below doesn't work, it's edmunds.com Honda Civic Hybrid forum, and the thread is "IMA Problems." Though I post earlier on it, check out starting at Page 15, which is what I describe happening. I go by "mrlar" there.
In a nutshell I live in California, where it's STATE LAW that if anything goes wrong with the hybrid or battery, it's an 8-10 year (depending) warranty, even if your 3yr/36,000 warranty on the rest of the car has expired. Honda's own tests showed my battery 90% degraded, but because it could still recharge (even after crashing on an almost daily basis) refused. The dealership was fine with doing it, but woudln't do it without an OK from Honda corporate. Honda corporate rep was rude and condescending, and refused to do anything. So I went to small claims court, picked up the paperwork, walked into the dealership and said "I know you guys are cool, but YOU are the ones I'm going to have to take to court, being in my jurisdiction, not Honda Corporate. Either get an OK to replace the battery by this afternoon, or first thing tomorrow I'm filing this paperwork with small claims court." That afternoon they received the OK.
But note that if AT ALL POSSIBLE DO *NOT* , DO NOT, DO **NOT** get the IMA update (sadly, if you have to get your batteries replaced, this will probably be forced on you).
With this update, the hybrid hardly comes on AT ALL. The most you will get is an occasional, measly TWO BARS (sometimes 3, but then it immediately goes down to 2) of hybrid assist. That's it. Only if you FLOOR the pedal will it come on past 3 bars -- such as when you need sudden acceleration... but this of course completely negates the reason for having the hybrid in the first place (to save gas). Flooring the pedal eats gas like crazy. MPG really suffers.
I will never buy another Honda hybrid. Their normal cars have held up well, but they went the cheap route for the hybrid. I don't hear the constant MAJOR (ie, batteries) problems with the Prius and Toyotas. Only the Hondas. Plus their attitude between both this and the previous "rear control arm" fiasco (which ruined 4 tires) and I think it's safe to say I'll be going back to Toyota. Our family used to buy Toyotas all the time. We switched about 8 years ago, and bought a normal Civic, an Accord, and the Civic Hybrid. It's pretty safe to say we'll be going back to Toyotas after this. What I have right now is a nice, NORMAL, non-hybrid (unless you count two tiny bars that barely come on a "hybrid") Civic that I paid a lot more for. And they won't put it back to the old software, saying they no longer "have" the old software.
Anyway, read all the info on exactly what I did here:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f145abe/136
Remember, everyone's case is different. This is only what happened to me.
But if you're asking just an opinion, you have to show you're not going to take it from Honda. At least in Calif, small claims court only costs $50, and you can sue for up to $5000 (the batteries are around $3000-$3500). It might be worth it. But again, save your hybrid and make sure they DO NOT "update" (cripple) your IMA software.
2 years ago
I have a 2007 HCH with 30,000 miles. My engine warning light and IMA light came on about 6 weeks ago. I took it to the local dealer and they ordered a computer update from the factory and had it installed. This was an interm fix and was supposed to receive a new battery in late December. So far Honda hasn't provided the battery. However, I get a call from there corperate HQ on a weekly basis as to the status of the battery. After several updates from corperate HQ saying the battery hasn't been shipped, I decided to see what I could find out on the internet. The posted comments don't sound to good. Is ther anyone out there with a similar problem and has Honda made it right?
2 years ago
I've seen a large number of batteries from across the country (actually the continent) and while I have seen heat damaged Insight and Civic packs, they have exclusively been from Arizona, New Mexico and southern Texas. I have not seen any indication of heat damage in batteries from northeastern FL, southern FL or on the panhandle.
Heat damage presents itself as weak cells in the uppermost cells of the pack. For 2003-2005 and 2006-2009 Civics, that would be the ones in the upper left if you sat the pack in front of you with the electronics board facing you. In a 2000-2006 Insight, that is the center of the two upper rows of batteries.
The thing to remember is that the battery packs are cooled by the cabin air. Air conditioned air is pulled in from the rear dash, run through the battery, through the inverter and then exhausted into the trunk. The battery rarely gets hot when the car is running. When it is turned off, however it gets as hot as the rest of the car. This is why the AZ cars that are baking in the sun have more of these problems.
What I think you are seeing is a cell whose capacity is temporarily dropping with the load you are putting on it. When the car detects that any cell has reached empty and is starting to go into reversal, it performs a "recal" where it recalibrates itself and sets a new upper and lower boundary for the battery. You see this as the gauge dropping to nothing and then slowly climbing back up.
The problems that the 2006+ Civic owners are seeing don't seem to be much different in type or amount than the 2003 Civic owners did three years earlier.
What is different is that Honda is aggressively trying to make them last a full 8 years and appears to be killing MPG to do it.
1 year ago
The same problem happens when it's cold outside. I hate Honda ! I've spent so much money on service, repairs etc., that its not worth having the stupid car. Let me tell you about some of my Honda's issues. Defective engine battery (twice), not the big battery pack yet. Windshield cracked (twice). Replacement cost over $700.00 Second time I had the cracks repaired. Two flat tires on seperate occasions, after running over small debris. Replacement of all tires, long before I should have had to. Tires that come with the vehicle are junk. Multiple service appt's for various issues. Brake job long before I should have needed one. Now I need another brake job! Multi Oil changes (very expensive oil). Drivers side widow problems in the RAIN (window would not roll up properly. Horn and electronic problems. Horn currently does not operate ! Vehicle bottoms out on just about any road, causing who knows what kind of damage under the vehicle. Loss of power steering when engine battery died(several times) Battery pack not charging (several tow truck service calls) (this would happen when, I was far from home and after auto rental places were closed. We need to get the Federal Govt. involved and bring a Class Action Lawsuit against Honda !
1 year ago
Wow - what an example of how not to win loyalty. I am 45 years old and have owned a Honda product since I started riding motorcycles at the age of 6. In the 39 years I have used them I have always been happy and looked forward to my next Honda. Today I own 4 Honda products - car, ATV, lawn mower and generator. Needless to say I was a fan until about a week ago. My 2009 Civic Hybrid has been having problems with the IMA system since the check IMA light came on a few months ago. I took the car to the dealership and they cleared the alarms and reprogrammed the IMA system. Since then the IMA system has not worked correctly and my fuel mileage is off 25 to 30 %. After taking the car back multiple times the dealer finally admitted there was a problem with the Hybrid and said he needed to replace the battery but Honda would not let him. He said to prolong battery life they had installed an update to prolong it. I called Honda and asked for there help. They assigned my case a number and called me back in a few days to inform me that the car was performing per the design specs. Amazed I asked them what were the design specs - they did not respond. I let them know that I just wanted the car to perform like it did for 18 months and that I needed it fixed. The responded that the dealership had reviewed the cars performance with the tech support and they felt the performance was per the design spec. Their design spec obviously changed in the middle of me owning the car. The car I have today is not what I purchased. Worse than that they are just saying it is my problem. The company I believed in for so many years is now the company that I don't trust and will not do business with in the future. They need to step up and fix the problem.
1 year ago
"Wow - what an example of how not to win loyalty"
This is what I keep thinking. Corporate Honda seems to be pedal-to-the-metal on the way to a collision with the reality of customers walking away. I doubt it will even register then. I do hope they have a shake up, they need it.
1 year ago
I have an 2010 Insight nothing but problems with IMA (hesitation, running rough and even stalling). Been to few dealers some of them don't want to take in this car in; they are all aware of this problem. Contacted American Honda no help they say this is the way car was designed. A technician told me that they use to have issues with the Battery's being replaced by 75k or even earlier, therefore Honda changed the charging procedure to have longer bat. live, what they forgot was how car will perform after this software change/up grade.
This car is a LEMON and someone should take this company to court This car is a danger to driver and others.
49 weeks ago
I HAVE A 2007 HONDA CIVIC HYBRID.ONE WHO HAD THE RECALL ON THE BATTERY.SINCE LAST AUGUST MY CAR WON'T GET OUT OF ITS OWN WAY. TERRIBLE GAS MILLAGE,THE MOTOR HAS TO REV UP TO 4 THOUSAND RPMS TO GET OUT IN TRAFFIC .ITS A HAZZARD TO MY LIFE.HONDA SAYS THEY CAN'T PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS. I LOVED THIS CAR SINCE THEY MESSED WITH IT I HATE IT AND DON'T FEEL SAFE AT ALL.LOST 14 MILES TO THE GALLON AROUND TOWN.IWANT THEM TO PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS .THEY SAY THEY CAN'T. THATS BULL IM FILING A CLASS ACTION SUIT,
8 weeks ago
Add me to the list of unhappy Honda civic customers. I now have to either have my battery replaced or be stuck with a IMA light that won't go off. They want 3,000 for parts and labor. Any way to get in on the class action lawsuit I'm reading about? I have owned Hondas since 1984. I will probably never buy the brand again unless the company can come up with a satisfactory solution. Obviously, there are a lot of us unhappy out there. I have never had to spend much money to repair a Honda automobile before. This experience has turned me against the brand. DO NOT BUY A HONDA HYBRID.
8 weeks ago
I own a 2009 (HCH) HONDA CIVIC HYBRID. Early in my career I was placed in the role of an Auto Service Manager, so I can say I know my way around automobiles! After comparing Hondas versus Toyotas hybrids I chose the Honda and bought one for my wife! Recently she stated that the (IMA) integrated motor assist & (CEL) check engine lights were ON ! I checked the reference manual that came with the vehicle only to read "send it to the dealership! " I sought out more information on the Internet! Well I can honestly state several common symptoms that many may relate to, here they are:
1. The AUTO STOP FEATURE IS INOPERABLE! (car shuts off when speed of car hits zero or stopped at the red light-the engine remains on constantly)
2. The MPG OR MILES PER GALLON HAS DROPPED APPROXIMATELY 10 miles per gallon! My wife can verify, she is a meticulous about her MPG!
3. The idle when car is stationary is erractic ( between 650-800) rpm revolutions per minute, (sorry the idle is the speed the engine is running at parked at the stoplight).
4. (IMA) is the battery system the engine relies on to give it support in order to get the great gas mileage I was getting before this happened.
By the way, today is December 14, 2011, and I start communicating with Honda tomorrow!
I take notes when I diagnose my car issues! Yup, pencil to paper! I also called Denver Honda Dealer and inquired what out of pocket expenses I will have to absorb, the (ASM) AUTO SERVICE MANAGER STATED THAT since I only have approximately 40,000 miles on my 2009 HCH that PARTS & LABOR were both covered if and only IF IT IS THE BATTERIES! Hmmm isnt that why the IMA light came on, (along with the drop in mileage)? My wife and I drive very conservative, for her it is like a video game in which she makes every attempt to get the best score (the highest mpg possible) and constantly monitors her mileage (miles per gallon)! I drive slow because I am use to driving my big SUV SPORTS UTILITY VEHICLE to get the best gas mileage possible for this gas guzzler. Same strategy for the HCH!
My goal is to share my experience with you and let you know if Honda will stand behind their advertising in their latest Christmas advertisement. I will be civil and objective and let the story unfold which I will share with as many websites as I can! Wish me luck I am hoping Honda will be more honorable than other manufacturers and not be forced to comply by our governmental agencies!
Durable longest line of cars? Time will tell if this holds true for their hybrids!
PAPA
STAY RIGHT SIDE UP IN A TOPSY TURVY WORLD
7 weeks ago
I have a 2010 Honda Civic Hybrid with 18K miles on it. It's been great until the other day. I first noticed the battery indicator was at 1 bar durn a short 10 minute trio. The next my wife drove it to work (about11 miles) and the IMA light came on. Took it to the dealer and they said it need a software upgrade. Got it back that night and the next day the IMA light came back on. Went back to the dealer and they are waiting for a new battery.
I live in california and have the extended 80K - 84 month warranty plus the 10 year - 150k california warranty. What I am concerned about is as the car ages what out of pocket cost will I be liable for? I purchased this car to save on gas a money, now I am wondering if I should unloaded it and get something that will last for 10 to 12 years.
7 weeks ago
Why don't you call customer service?
3 weeks ago
I've had a 2003 Honda Hybrid since new and until recently it has been an excellent vehicle. Its been driven mostly by my sons and about 7 months ago when he got a new car it was not used sometimes for months. I have recently read this one of the worst things for the IMA battery pack, but there is nothing in the Owner's manual that warns of this if it is true. When I started driving it again the IMA light came on, and the dealer did a software "upgrade" at 104K miles. This fix lasted about 5 miles at which time the IMA light came on again and the check engine light, CEL, also. The dealership ran a computer diagnostic and told me I needed a new IMA battery ($3500) and a new catalytic converter (~$2000). They also told me that although Honda changed to a !0yr /100K warranty on these parts in CA during my model year, based on the VIN my vehicle was 8yr/80K which of course had just expired. After my protest that they wanted more than the vehicle was worth, they "talked to the factory" and got a 40% reduction to about $3K.
I then started to call the factory number from my owners manual and made further progress. They are now offering the IMA battery replacement no charge but I have to pay labor for installation which is to be no more than $500. So far they will not budge on the catalytic converter which is down to $980!
To get any further reduction I will probably have to take legal action or at least threaten.
My point in writing this is to let others know that persistence can pay off, and clearly Honda knows they put out a defective product with the IMA battery or they would not be willing to pick ANY of the replacement costs.
Honda is insistent that my catalytic converter failure is coincidental and unrelated to my IMA problems. I'm not so sure however, anyone else seeing similar "coincidences"?????
1 week ago
I am a 2007 Honda hybrid with defective battery owner, and a class action lawyer. I plan to object to the settlement because it is an awful deal for people like me with real battery problems above and beyond gas mileage issues (intermittent sluggish performance, total failures, etc). I have a big firm to represent me in the objection. I would like to talk to hybrid owners experiencing similar problems as me. Email me at peter@peterfredmanlaw.com
1 week ago
I am a 2007 Honda hybrid with defective battery owner, and a class action lawyer. I plan to object to the settlement because it is an awful deal for people like me with real battery problems above and beyond gas mileage issues (intermittent sluggish performance, total failures, etc). I have a big firm to represent me in the objection. I would like to talk to hybrid owners experiencing similar problems as me. Email me at peter@peterfredmanlaw.com
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