Considering buying a 2004 HCH - advice?

First off you want to see the carfax on the vehicle. They should be able to provide you with one on it. Or go to the Carfax website and purchase one. These are invaluable when checking on the history of any vehicle, including ownership, state DMV reported problems such as salvage, accidents & mileage, and even if the vehicle was dealer serviced. For example, every time my car was at the dealer for service or repair it shows up on my carfax.

Also if they won't Honda Certify it with those low miles and clean history, then I would walk away from it.

Since they told you the battery is warrantied to 100k I am assuming you are living in California? If this is so that price is probably about normal for that car's stats, where you live, and the hybrid premium that dealers are charging. I would also get them to allow you to take it to another dealer's service center or independent mechanic to have it checked out. Also for that price it wouldn't hurt to ask if they would throw in the extended warranty. Dealers won't budge too much on pricing right now, but throwing in things for free is sometimes much easier for them to consider.

Is the guy telling you the oil is 5w-30 the sales person or the service person? If it is the sales person, walk over to the service department and ask them what oil it uses. If they agree find yourself another dealer to get your service done. Even the owners manual says 0w-20 and in an emergency 5w-20. You would never want 5w-30 in that car. Also you want to check with the service department to be sure that all updates and / or recalls have been applied. Mine was dealer certified but the software updates had not been applied.

Another quick check you can do sometimes with the hybrid is turn the key to on and push the button down by the speedometer to check the A & B trip meters. With each push it will cycle between the normal mileage display and the trip A & B meters. Some drivers never reset one of them and you can see what the mpg for the car was over an extended time, as driven by the previous driver. If it is extremely low than the previous driver drove it hard. I never reset my A trip meter and use my B for in between fill ups.

That's just some of the things I can think of right now, I am sure some will throw in their ideas as well. Pricing is whatever you and the market will bear, so I hate to comment on that.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

DO NOT BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a service bulletin for that transmission (they are the same from 2003-2005). I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid and the trans has been bad ever since I bought it used in 2006. It had 60,000 miles on it and was about $17,000 after the trade in. It is currently at the dealer AGAIN, this time they are just giving me a rebuilt transmission, the last 4 or 5 times they tried to fix my transmission it didn't work, just patched it up for a few thousand miles.

I really do love my car. But I feel that it's not worth this stress and hassle. I wish I had done more research and made a more informed decision. I wish that the dealer had told me about the bulletin and that the car may have problems. I guess their job is to sell it, who cares about what happens after that, right? I really understand why it was on the used lot already after only being 3 years old... that's when the warranty ran up for the original owner, and they got out when they could. I feel like I have to keep the car, since I can't sell it for what I still owe. But I am also in FEAR of what may be to come. a $5,000 battery in a couple years? a brand NEW TRANSMISSION AGAIN in another 10,000 or 20,000 miles when I have no warranty?? It's really terrible to have purchased a nice car, my first "real" car, hoping that it would last me through grad school and that I could be green and save some money at the same time... only to realize that I am dealing with a lemon.

ALSO--

1.) Saving Money? Probably not. Almost definitely not. That's what I thought too, but if you count in time that it will be at the dealership and the repairs and parts you will have to buy it really isn't cheaper than a non-hybrid. You have to drive well over 100,000 miles just to break even on gas and the extra money the car cost. But these cars aren't lasting that long without SERIOUS repairs needing to be made. So the chances of breaking even or actually saving money are very slim.

2.) Being Green? Not as much as you think. It takes more energy to manufacture hybrids than other vehicles. They are made from lighter metal which is more costly to make than heavier metals used in other vehicles. It also uses more fuel to make the hybrid batteries... Those batteries will only last 5-8 years and then what happens? They are in a landfill or get recycled... And IF they are recycled, the process to recycle them takes more fuel. Because the car's parts break more often and are more disposable, and because of the extra energy needed for production, these Hybrid vehicles are really not as green as we'd all like to think they are.

^^^ All things I wish I'd looked into before I purchased my used 2003 Civic Hybrid. I suggest thinking long and hard about your decision, ask around a lot, talk to mechanics and hybrid owners, test drive different hybrids and toyota ones too... Just don't go dumping your hard earned cash into a "cool green car" before you realize what you're getting yourself into.

jdstewe76-

1.) Congratulations on NOT buying the car!! (yet)

2.) Those MPGs, are NOT good for a Hybrid! I got 25mpg in the Toyota RAV4 I just had as a loaner while my car was getting a rebuilt transmission. That means the car has been driven hard, abused.

3.) It was bought at an auction... I don't like the sounds of that. Many shady cars from floods or car accidents are sold at actions, they are very cheap and a shady mechanic can rig them up and sell them for 1,000s more than they paid. It may be a Katrina car. Wait for the CarFax. That may tell you a little more.

4.) No service record= do NOT buy this car. It has recorded service bulletins (more than one, yes) with Honda, therefore you would want to know if the recalled parts have been replaced, if not you could be in for trouble. Also, if you saw the service history and saw that the clutches were burnished a few times and a transmission was rebuilt or replaced you may not want to invest in that car... the transmissions will keep failing, at least that is what all the evidence I've seen suggests. It's a problem with the actual car, not the trans itself and it burns up the transmissions, they are probably kinda carppy too though, b/c going out at such low miles is ridiculous.

5.) I have been unable to find the actual service bulletins for Honda online. They don't publicize them for obvious reasons... If you ask your dealer they should provide you with them. They are mailed out to people who already own the vehicle, so the previous owner would have gotten it, but you'll never see or hear about it from the salesman if you don't ask. They should show you the original- it's just a paper that says service bulletin, and the bulletin ID number and then underneath lists the problems that the car may have due to bad design or production AND what Honda is willing to do to fix the problem There's definitely one for the transmissions and I received one for the passenger side airbag sensor, so that must be a recently published service bulletin. They don't send them out until they get *enough complaints, whatever enough is, they should fix any problem that is their fault. Service bulletins are a step down from recalling the vehicles, more complaints and they have to do a nationwide recall instead of just a service bulletin. That means that probably MANY MANY of our cars have these problems, but some of them don't or they'd all have been recalled most likely. It's your gamble. It's a pretty big gamble too if you ask me. Some of the parts that can go bad can cause a fatal accident if it happens on the highway or something. I'm not trying to scare you, just being real and saying the stuff I wish I'd thought of before I sank a college loan into a not-so-reliable car.

6.) My car is finished today, I will get it after finishing this post. The transmission is hopefully right on the way home, I'll definitely let you know if it's bad already on the way home, like it has in the past when they 'fixed' it. ALSO, they told me that the muffler needs to be replaced soon- this part is NOT covered under my warranty. The lady was honest enough to quietly suggest that I not get a Honda muffler, as they are way overpriced.

That is all for now. I wish you good luck!

I'll keep watching this thread to see what you do- keep us posted!

If you want to avoid the possible automatic transmission problems, get one with a manual. I love mine and it runs like a top, of course the manuals were only available in the HCH-I. While Honda does not seem to carry service history from one dealer to another, many somehow report the services so that they do show up on the carfax. The carfax on mine has every oil change & service over the last 3 years because the previous owner took it to a dealership in Ohio. I am doing my own oil changes but log every thing at the Honda Owners site and will provide that information to anyone that would purchase it in the future, should I decide to sell. Not likely as I have a habit of driving Hondas until they rust into the ground.

Just curious but do you remember how many miles were on those trip meters. Was either of them very far? If they had been reset and only showed a few miles that could have been because someone was playing with them while test driving. As for the auction, lots of dealers purchase vehicles from auction. Of course that is why you get a Carfax as it will tell you the nasties if there are any. When I was looking for a car, I purchased a month of Carfax for about $30, as opposed to getting a single one for $25 and I looked at almost 40 of them. Some of them even had minor traffic accidents listed on them. I think they have been tracking those reports since 05. Of course, if the owners didn't report the accident it won't show up. Great tool, especially if you start looking through a lot of vehicles. Also if you buy the a vehicle that carfax has guaranteed not to be a salvage or other wise and you can prove it was, they will buy it back from you.

This vehicle you are looking at may not be the one for you, but don't let it stop you from looking at used Hondas. As I said I looked at over 40 before deciding on the one I have.

I agree with you jd, when I was looking back in March they one I read about today was gone the next. I never saw one sit around that was in good condition. If you have been talking with them for weeks there is something wrong.

If you seriously start looking at multiple used vehicles buy the 30 days worth of carfax it is worth it. Also when I asked about the trip meters I already knew from your previous post the mpg on them. I was asking about the number of miles that were on them with that mpg. Sorry if I was confusing. When I bought this one the previous owner had not reset his trip A in over 9000 miles so I got a good idea of his true mpg.

As for new HCH and Prius, most new buyers are on a waiting list and paying a premium on top of MSRP. If I had to buy new, I would wait for next years models as Honda is suppose to be releasing up to 4 hybrids. See this article for an idea of what is coming next year. I only bought a use one because my current vehicle at that time was about to rust apart from age. :)

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/06/honda-hybrid-may-be-called-insight-s...

Good luck looking!

Hi HemiSync, sorry, my bad about the miles. I think the mileage on the A & B trip meters was like a few hundred miles or something. At least on one of them it was, the other might have been less. I didn't really pay a lot of attention to that b/c I didn't know it was important. Yeah since the car has been there for weeks, and on top of that I still haven't gotten the carfax he said he was going to fax me, I'm probably going to pass on this 2004 one. Thanks for the advice on waiting 'til next year's models come out; I didn't know they were going to have 4 new ones; that's great! Do you happen to know when they will be releasing them? I'm trying to move for October. I'm at work and that link you sent me is blocked so I can't look at it. I will try to see if I can check it out this weekend. Thanks for all of your help.
PS Oh I live in CT, not CA. :)

as i said, my car is back...

But the problems have started again.

This time my battery is messed up. It was only half charged when I took it home, but I figured it would charge as I drove. I gave them a few days of faith, but now it's scheduled to go back on Monday to have them fix the battery.

My problem is:

The assist works twice as hard as it used to (almost full bars, instead of just 4 or 5) so it drains the battery every time I accelerate. Then the battery doesn't charge while I'm driving. When the battery gets a little below half drained it realizes that it's low and charges a little bit, but only to half way. I can drive like a SUPER GRANNY and use hills, but I can only get my battery to a little more than half full, and then if I drive normal at all again it goes back to half. When I brought my car to the dealership the battery was full. Every single time I've ever turned off my car it was full. I have never EVER had the battery stay at half full more than a mile! And that was in the dead winter when the battery drained from a light being left on. But it charged up from 0 to full in about 3 miles, maybe 5.

So why now, the day I bring it home, it breaks? I find it really hard to believe that it's a coincidence. I think that they hooked up something wrong or didn't adjust a computer, something. I feel so sick to my stomach now when I drive my car and see it just draining itself and not running properly. I am so sad that I bought this car. My next hybrid will be brand new, and I will pay extra for a super warranty. Used hybrids are not worth the stress and worry!!!

Hi.
I think you're right to be cautious. Like you said, there are many happy HCH1 owners- I wish I shared their luck. It IS a pretty expensive gamble though, so I would say the conditions you listed are right on... if they can't give you that, walk. I would definitely try for the 2nd gen, if I could. One thing though, if you do go for a mini cooper be careful too. My best friend bought one pre-owned last year and she thinks it's a lemon. We both comfort each other- both of our first "grown-up" cars and they are disappointing. I haven't done any research on the Minis, so I don't know if it's just her car, or they have some problems in general. It's good that you are doing research as well as getting feedback from owners. You seem like you're shopping really smart for this vehicle... I'll be interested to know what you end up deciding.
I am dropping my car off tomorrow morning at the dealership for the battery (IMA) problems mentioned above- over the weekend the problem did not improve. I will tell you what they say.