2004 HCH IMA Light and Dead Battery
Created March 5, 2007, at 9:23 am by jqvelour
My wife and I bought a 2004 HCH used not too long ago (it had a clean record, we checked), and until now have been very pleased. We've taken a few long trips with it and it has performed very well.
Until a couple of days ago. We parked it the night before, with, if I remember correctly, about 3/4 charge on the battery. The next morning, the car would not start, at all. I jump-started it and everything appeared fine, it charged the battery up to about 1/4, and we drove it for a little while, charging the battery fully. It worked well yesterday, there were no problems with the battery--it assists and charges normally.
This morning, the IMA light came on as I was taking my wife to work. I called my local Honda dealer, and will be taking it to them tomorrow (the earliest they can look at it.)
Has anyone seen this kind of behavior? I'm unsure what drained the battery the other night, nothing was left on, etc.
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4 years ago
The 12 volt accessory battery is almost 3 years old, and while it should last a little longer it is not un-heard of, for these batteries to fail at 3 years of age only. I've had 12 volt batteries last 7 years but I also had some that lasted a little less than 3.
Fortunately, the IMA NiMH battery pack does not exhibit such variability and perhaps your issues reflect little on the IMA's state of health. It is likely that your 12 volt battery has poor capacity and may need to be replaced.
Let us know how it goes;
Cheers;
MSantos
4 years ago
Thanks. That was generally my thought as well, but there are still some unanswered questions I have. I'm still unsure of what caused the IMA battery pack to discharge so thoroughly, and although it makes sense to me that the IMA light would come on after such an event (I'm assuming it's rare enough that the IMA would want to be checked-out afterward), would that be the most likely reason it's on?
4 years ago
Hello! I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid 2004 35,000 miles this yr and had it taken into the dealer 2 weeks ago for the CVT recall (which all they did was replace the transmission fluid) and the dealer told me the battery (the regular kind) was bad and I replaced it. Today, 2 weeks later, my IMA and service engine light came on. I called the dealer and he said it wouldn't damage my engine to continue driving with it on. But that is not what the manual says. Any ideas if this has to do with the battery replacement? I checked the readiness codes and the light goes off. I can't take it in immediately as my folks are coming into town tomorrow!! :(
Thanks!
4 years ago
Obviously, the dealer is pretty sure of what is going on and they are not worried about it all. They know it is likely related to the accessories battery replacement and the syst6em having been left in an inconsistent state (not waiting long enough between power-downs.
If you want to resolve the matter yourself simply unplug the 12 Volt battery for 10-20 minutes, then plug it back in. Take the car for a 5-15 minute drive around the block and all should be back to normal. Alternatively, you can take it to the dealer and they'll do almost the same thing. ;)
Cheers;
MSantos
4 years ago
Hi MSantos
Thanks for the reply. After I posted that I called another Honda dealer and they told me to bring it in for a check up the next morning. So I brought it in this morning and they told me the battery pack was bad and needed to be replaced. It now has 45K miles on it and the battery needs to be replaced? What's the deal with this? I thought it should last for at least 100k miles. It is covered under the warranty but I can't believe it would crap out so soon! They told me I should only drive when necessary as I could be left stranded. Then later today the IMA light went off but the check engine light is still on. The battery is still showing that it is receiving a charge. I don't know what to believe....Any thoughts? Should I rent a car and not drive it around? If the battery was really going dead then it wouldn't be recharging.. I would only assume.. Thanks again!:eek:
4 years ago
Hummm... it is somewhat unusual even for a 2004 CVT model to require a battery replacement so soon. Do you live in a montainous area?
We actually have many examples of 2004 CVT and even some 2003 models going way past 100K without any issues. Again, I am only speaking of CVT models since quite a few of the manual transmission HCH's will likely have gotten a battery replacement before reaching 100K, that is why Honda will only make CVT models from here on.
It is difficult to tell that the battery pack has a problem, but then again only their HDS testing will tell that for sure. I do find it disturbing that they would make such a claim without assessing the actual system state conditions. :confused:
Anyhow, just in case the battery pack and BCM do get replaced then look at it this way: Minimal cost to you... and you get an extension of at least another 100K! Please note that the latest updates contain improvements in module design and software that will likely extend the battery pack life well beyond what you got on your original system. So it is a good thing anyway and you should regard this as a system upgrade. :)
If indeed your IMA system is unable to provide charging power to your 12V system because of a bad battery, bad BCM or bad DC-DC module, then your 12V battery will deplete and you will get stranded. You may offset that possibility by simply monitoring the charge of the 12V battery and keeping it charged with an external charger. This way you can continue driving the car until they can repair it.
Good luck, and lets us know how it unfolds.
MSantos
4 years ago
Sorry for the delay. The Honda dealership replaced my battery for free since CA law makes them guarantee 150K miles. They thought it was just a bad battery. I live in Los Angeles so there are hills but not mtn hills. I am pretty disappointed that at 45K miles I needed a new battery. I know the batteries are not very good for our environment so I had hoped by buying this type of car I would contribute something but instead the worst happened. It only took 3 hours to install and was quite painless. They were really nice but I am disappointed. Thanks for all your advice in my time of need!
Cheers!
Malderine
4 years ago
Your battery pack is the least harmful of battery chemistries on the market today. You can be certain that none of the existing hybrid batteries will ever make it into a landfill since they have many precious metals the manufacturers covet and that makes any dumping of a hybrid battery a pretty stupid act. Besides, many of these battery have a 1-800 number and the manufacturers even offer a reward for their return.
I would be far more concerned about the highly corrosive and poisonous lead acid batteries in millions of cars currently on the road. Those are the only real threat.
Nevertheless, its good to hear things are back to normal. :)
I am willing to bet that only a few cells in the entire pack were bad. Along the way, I am also convinced they also updated/upgraded some of your IMA modules as well. It is common for them to do that and as I mentioned before, your second battery pack will last much much longer.
Cheers & Good luck.
MSantos
4 years ago
Do you mean you get an extension of at least another 100K because of the improved battery pack/software? Or some sort of actual dealer-guaranteed warranty extension. I'm guessing the first...
4 years ago
No, Honda will not normally extend the warranty for yet another 100K. Their warranty obligations remain as before, i compliance to the car's original warranty coverage terms & period.
What you get though, is an improved/revised setup that is expected to be more reliable and longer lasting than the original. I was merely referring to the long term value of the warranty replaced items, not only as an upgrade, but also as a margin for greater peace of mind for you. You don't always get that with many warranty replaced items.
Cheers;
MSantos
4 years ago
4 years ago
3 years ago
Help! I have a 2001 Insight with 312,000 miles on it. I've had battery issues since it reached 90,000 I've had the car in three times to replace the BCM and MCM. Yesterday the IMA light came on AGAIN!!! I called around and I'm being told I'm looking at $5,000 to fix this lemon AGAIN! What is going on here? the IMA was coming on and off for some time now. Just playing with my emotions. Could it be a loose connection? Awhile back the 12 volt Battery had a loose connection and it was playing havoc with the whole car. Could it be the same thing again? I just paid off this car, and I'm NOT buying another for a long long TIME!!!
Any suggestions?
Bill
3 years ago
Bill:
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Is your vehicle a CVT or manual transmission model?
At what mileage did you have your battery pack replaced? Anyhow, 312K miles is nothing to sneeze at but still $5000 is a little too steep unless they are replacing the the pack, BCM and MBM all over again.
How often have you been getting recals (if any) ? And if so, how long do they last?
I may be able to offer more input depending on your answers to my questions.
Cheers;
MSantos
3 years ago
I have 2003 civic hybrid with 160,000 miles on it and the IMA light came on for two days and then today when I started up it was off? What does this mean? What are the possible options and diagnosis?
Thanks, Brian
3 years ago
Brian, check your 12V battery. If it is weak then it will cause those problems.
Also, when was the last time you had your car serviced by a good dealership? If you haven't visited them in a long time, please take it in for your next oil change and you'll likely get a few updates for free as well.
Next time the IMA light comes on do the following:
1 - Disconnect the 12V battery for 10 minutes.
2 - Reconnect the battery and go a slow 10-15 drive around the neighborhood.
3- Record how long it takes for the traction battery charge to be shown as FULL, and how long it stays that way (avoid using too much assist during this period).
Cheers;
MSantos
3 years ago
312,000 miles?!?! Wow! Unfortunately the only suggestion I could make is it's time for another car. Not only are things close to wearing out like expensive drivetrain parts but so is everything else. You will start throwing good money after bad. But all in all I think that many miles is a testament to Honda reliability.
44,000+ miles per year. I always wonder why people put that many miles on a car or would want to spend that much time in a car. It's time to move closer to work or work closer to home. I am definitely not an advocate of commuting or congestion.
3 years ago
"We actually have many examples of 2004 CVT and even some 2003 models going way past 100K without any issues. Again, I am only speaking of CVT models since quite a few of the manual transmission HCH's will likely have gotten a battery replacement before reaching 100K, that is why Honda will only make CVT models from here on."
My 2003 manual HCH has 135K miles on it. I live in the foothills of the Cascades, so a lot of my driving is on winding, hilly terrain. My mileage is generally about 44 in the summer and 42 in the winter. On a cross-country journey a couple of summers ago I averaged 48.8 mpg (according to the display), even though the AC was on for almost the entire 7300 miles.
I replaced the 12V battery at 90K, but am just now starting to be concerned about the expensive battery. Unfortunately, when I replace the HCH it will have to be with something different, because the new models are not available with a manual transmission, and I do not want an automatic.
My ideal replacement car would have 4WD (I know, terrible on mileage, but then I could go skiing without having to take the truck), seat 4, and have a manual transmission. Any suggestions?
3 years ago
JSandler:
While 135K miles is a pretty good number already, it appears that from your driving it may still have much life left in it. My view is that it would be a pity to give away that gem of a car to someone else who may not be as good to it.
There are many folks who are going beyond the 300K miles mark on the Gen 1 HCH's without much trouble at all. Don't let some of the reports on this forum phase you off since these are still not the majority nor a probability that most folks have to worry about.
This is not to say it wont need the replacement of the traction battery at some point. We all can agree that it will, but how one drives and cares for the car has a big impact on that probability.
So, let's say that the battery needs replacing? All you have to do is contact Corporate Honda and have them pay for half of the battery pack replacement. They have been doing that even for vehicles that have gone past the original warranty period. In this outcome, you'd pay for ~$2,500 which would approximate the cost of a transmission replacement on most cars and you'd still have a car that could take you for at least another 150K-250K miles easily. I call this a bargain worth taking advantage of.
If you need a different vehicle for the odd leisurely moments I would suggest you rent one when you need it. Sure, it is not as convenient but you'd still save a BIG bundle in the end. Gas prices, environmental constraints and regulations will continue to increase and stay that way permanently, but there are very few cars on the road today that will help you more than the one you already have. Take good care of it and it will reward you even more.
Cheers;
MSantos
3 years ago
I've had several (5, to be precise) new catalytic converters put in, all under warrantee, and all the regular maintenance done; so far everything else has been OK. Several months ago the IMA and check engine lights came on, not for the first time, but this time they've stayed on. The mechanic sent me to the dealer, who recommended a new IMA battery, at $5K. $2.5K sounds much better.
I had decided not to do anything about the battery until there was some difference in the way the car behaved, but started looking into replacement cars. The one I want doesn't seem to be built yet. Now the MPG seems to have dropped off some, which could be a blip due to the return to winter weather.
We're building a vacation home on Mt. Hood, which we go to almost every weekend. For now we usually need the truck (about 17 MPG) for hauling lumber, furniture, etc., but by next winter a car should be sufficient. Unfortunately, even with chains the HCH wouldn't make it in the winter due to its low ground clearance, and 4WD is pretty much a necessity. Down at our regular home I can usually wait out the times I can't safely drive without 4WD, or take my husband's truck, but when I do replace the HCH I think it will be with a small 4WD. I'm hoping the HCH lasts until there's one available that gets at least 35 MPG.
3 years ago
Thank you for the advice! I contacted Corporate Honda and got the OK for a 50/50 split on the IMA battery replacement for my 2003 HCH. Driving home from the dealership it was strange not to see the check engine and IMA lights on. I haven't noticed any difference in the behavior of the car, so think the battery was fully functional. When I've driven more I'll see if the charge rate is different. I'll need to go through DEQ soon, and with the lights on they wouldn't even look at the car, or I probably would have waited longer before getting the new battery.
I haven't seen any 4WD/AWD car on the market that has high enough gas efficiency to interest me, so we'll probably continue to take the truck when we go up the mountain in winter and I'll stay home on snowy/icy days that the truck isn't available. Usually there are only about 5 days a winter the HCH can't get out of our driveway (1/2 mile to paved & plowed road). With non-studded snow tires, it handles well in snow of a few inches or less, but doesn't have enough clearance for the deeper stuff, and 4WD is pretty much a necessity on snowy mountain roads.
When I do the math, the mileage is typically 2-4 MPG lower than what the computer says, but that's still way better than a standard car. I've been driving the HCH for 5 1/2 years now, and look forward to putting many more miles on it.
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