2003 Civic Hybrid CVT tr, slipping noise
Created October 3, 2006, at 10:47 pm by Anonymous
I have an 03 civic hybrid with CVT transmission. I got it certified used at about 36,000 miles and it was supposed to have fresh trans fluid and I believe it did. The powertrain is warranted to 100,000 miles since it was certified used. I am at 74,000 now. At about 66,000, when it should have been due for it’s transmission fluid change, it was making a slipping/grinding sound when starting off, especially on a hill. It had previously been very smooth and quiet. It gradually became a problem. It was not all of a sudden. It was hard to know for sure that it was not my imagination, except for it being real obvious on an incline and it was getting worse. The dealer’s mechanic heard the sound, too, and said let’s start with the fluid change it was due for. The change made it great again, but only for a few thousand miles. When I went back they said they had learned about a process called burnishing the transmission band. I believe they put their foot on the brake while putting on the gas, almost to the point of stalling (I think) to clean up the band. Mine would be the 2nd car they would do it on. It also requires a change of fluid after because it is supposed to take the crud from the parts and put it into the fluid. They did it for free since I had already asked them to work on this problem, and I had paid for the fluid change to fix the same problem. Again, after their work it was nice and quiet and smooth, but about 3,000 miles later it is coming back again. I don’t know if their process did anything, or if it was just the fresh fluid that helped like it did the first time. I am concerned repetitions of the process might decrease the life of the transmission.
The best outcome for me would probably be a complete transmission failure at 99,000 miles because then I can get a new one.
Anybody having similar problems?
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Hi,
I just traded in my 2003 HCH with 108,000 miles. I loved it to death and the only real complaint I hever had with it was the CVT problem you felt.
My first time I felt this was at about 35,000. I had been doing all my own maintenance (oil and inspections) but had failed to do the 30,000 CVT fluid change. After much research - I found that was the source of my problems - clogged up CVT. For me a change worked, and then like clockwork, every 30,000 there-after the car "told me" to change the fluid by giving me that symptom.
My research did not discuss the band trick - but did talk about sometimes having to do a double fluid change for bad problems.
The change was very easy to do yourself. Buy the Honda new CVT fluid, a funnel with a long tube, and then replacment washers for the fill/drain plugs.
Good Luck
I'm having the EXACT same slipping problem. I got my 2003 civic hybrid new in 2002. I had to get the catalytic converter replaced at 40,000. Around 50,000, the transmission started having the slipping noise Mike described. As he said, it got gradually worse, so eventually I took it in to the dealer. They said "oh, yeah, there's a special bulletin on that problem."
So they burnished my transmission fluid (or band?) and then *charged me for it* because the warranty doesn't cover fluid replacements. I argued with them because I feel like any unscheduled maintenance that involves a special bulletin ought to be covered under my warranty regardless of whether or not it involves replacing fluids. No luck.
The slipping went away for a couple thousand miles but then it came back again. Am I really supposed to get my tranmission fluid replaced and burnished every 3,000 miles?!! So, I waited to do anything about it until my 65,000 mile scheduled maintenance. I took it to the dealership but they wanted to charge me $400 for the scheduled maintenance! I called a local and reputable mechanic and he quoted me $115. So, I took it to the local mechanic. Everything was cool for a little bit, but then low and behold, it started coming back again!
I don't know what to do. Should I trade this thing in before it gets any worse? From other people's posts, it sounds like I could have regular problems with my catalytic converter and this CVT transmission will likely continue to give me trouble.
OH! And I forgot to mention I've had to take it into the dealership three times because the SRS light keeps coming on for no reason!!!
Don't get me wrong. I've loved the smooth ride and great gas mileage. But, I don't want to end up with an expensive clunker!!
A shudder or Judder up to 15 mph requires honda to Drain and Burnish
the 2003-2005 honda hybrid CVT CLUTCH.Honda will check the EGR valve
during this service too. Honda tech article# ATS06070
"A shudder or Judder up to 15 mph requires honda to Drain and Burnish
the 2003-2005 honda hybrid CVT CLUTCH.Honda will check the EGR valve
during this service too. Honda tech article# ATS06070"
Okay, that's what it was. I *paid* Honda to do that (because fluids are not covered under the warranty). But, it only fixed the problem for about three thousand miles. I had it done again during my routine maintenance and again it only fixed the problem for a few thousand miles. If that is the only solution Honda has to offer, it isn't a solution at all.
I've been reading up on CVTs in general and I saw that CVTs that rely on rubber belts have a history of developing slipping/shudder problems as the belts wear and stretch. Supposedly, newer CVTs are using metal belts that don't stretch. Anybody know what the Civic Hybrid uses? If it is rubber, maybe the solution is just to get a fresh one put on. Any ideas?
Did you try the belts yet? I've got about 125K on my CVT. I had the slipping noise everyone is describing at about 110K. I changed the fluid and it went away for a while. But just like everyone else, it returned after a few thousand miles. Then miraculously when the weather cooled here in Wisconsin, the problem disappeared. I fear it will come back in the spring when the weather warms. During a tire rotation, my (non-Honda) mechanic told me it is probably time to change the belts. Of course, they are always recommending some kind of work so I didn't think much of it until I saw this post. I now have a theory after seeing this most recent post. As the belts stretch (or expand in warmer weather) they get loose causing the slippping. The cooler weather has caused the belts to contract and the slipping is going away for me for now. If this theory is correct, new belts may be your answer. if you go that route, please post what happens. I will likely change my belts in spring if the noise returns (depending on your post). If I go that route I will post my results. Good luck and thanks for your post--the Honda techs should check this forum out on a regular basis.
I have a 2003 HCH I bought in early 2003 that has about 60K miles. I have the same problem. It started at about 45K, after not having the fluid changed at 30K miles (I'm good with routine maintenance, done by a local garage, but that one was unexpected, and I missed it) My honda dealer (which BTW, is not the same one I bought it at) replaced the fluid at no extra charge to me at 50K miles. The problem has returned. I brought it back in, and they said that since I came in, a couple others had come in with the same problem. They are going to replace my starter clutch, and Honda is paying for it. At this point the starter clutch is back-ordered, so I am waiting for it. I am very happy at this point with the way my honda dealer has treated me.
Guys,
I have an '03 hybrid that is doing the same thing. I bought mine used with about 75k on it. I noticed a very slight shudder during the test drive at which time the dealer promised to fix it if it didn't go away. I took it back a week later and told them to fix it. They changed the trans fluid/filter and seemed to have solved the problem. NOT!! It came back with a vengeance at 101K(go figure...waited till the warranty ran out) at which time I took it in and spent roughly $750 on it. The dealer recommended "burnishing" the clutch. He says that the issue is in the clutch, not the transmission.
NOTE TO SELF!!! Burnishing the clutch does NOT fix the issue. It will smooth it out for a while. The problem returned at 110K.
I have seen this same issue on numerous blogs and am wondering two things....
1) Has Honda lost the will to put out a quality product??(don't even get me started on the catalytic converter!!)
2) Is there any way to get them to recall these crappy parts??
As far as I'm concerned, this car is a "lemon", the only upside thus far has been the fuel economy, but the repair bills have far outweighed the economy savings to date.
Please address all concerns of power loss and surging due to faulty CVT transmission parts and the EGR valve in the civic hybrid to the national highway safety agency at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ . The following has been copied and pasted from the link.
By Phone
Call the DOT Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 and a NHTSA representative will record your complaint information.
General Information
Your complaint information will be entered into NHTSA's vehicle owner's complaint database and used with other complaints to determine if a safety-related defect trend exists.
If a safety-related defect exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment, the manufacturer must fix it at no cost to the owner. Your complaint is the first step in the process.
Government engineers analyze the problem. If warranted, the manufacturer is asked to conduct a recall. If the manufacturer does not initiate a recall, the government can order the manufacturer to initiate a recall.
We do not have to receive a specific number of complaints before we look into a problem. We gather all available information on a problem. Your complaint is important to us.
The problem appears to be a quicker degradation of the transmission fluid than what Honda expected. The easier solution is to replace the Transmission fluid more frequently than called by the service schedule.
I've have heard that they are considering a reformulated ATF fluid to help extend its life at least to meet to original fluid replacement intervals. Until that or another viable solution is adopted, the more frequent fluid replacement is the best bet. In some cases the belt may have to be replaced as well in order for the problem to really go away.
Cheers;
MSantos
I just received the April 2007 Consumer Reports.
On page 83 they explain their reliabilty ratings:
[INDENT][/INDENT]"Because problem rates in some trouble spots are very low, we do not assign a (black circle) or (half black circle) unless the model's problem rate exceeds 3 percent. If a problem rate is below 2 percent, it will be assigned a (half red circle). If a problem rate is below 1 percent, it will be assigned a (red circle)."
The Civic Hybrid reliability information is listed on page 87. Under transmission, the '03 model has a (half black circle), the '04 - '05 models have (half red circle) and the '06 model has a (red circle). So, at least 3% of '03 HCH owners have had a problem with their transmission. Did Honda make a transmission change between '03 and '04?
Interestingly, the regular '03 Honda Civic sedan rates higher in some areas than the Hybrid. I thought they were virtually identical.
Of course, compared to other manufacturers, you won't find very many "black marks" in the Honda line up. On page 25 they list the predicted liability by make. Toyota and Honda are tied at the top, followed by Scion, Acura and Lexus (all brand mates!).
I hope that when Consumer Reports subscribers complete their upcoming reliability questionnaire that the transmission trouble spot does not slide to a (black circle).
I have an '03 HCH and have had the fluid change/burnishing procedure done as a "courtesy warrantee". My brother also has an '03 HCH and has had the same procedure, too. So far, so good. I'm glad I got an 80K Honda extended warrantee.
I really think Honda owes all of us 1st generation owners a free repair when they find a permanent solution to this problem.
Thanks for this post. My Honda dealership looks at me like I am crazy when I take the car in, and they have comments like, "well, the tech thinks he has seen this before." That does not give me much confidence.
In South Carolina our Lemon Law protects lessors and buyers from three repairs for the same thing. So, I would encourage you to look into the lemmon laws for your state. I was dissapointed to read that this occurs in only 4% and I just got that lucky, huh?
After the 53K slippage, It has now returned at 55K. The dealership charged me 250 for the first fluid change, and wants 136 for the burnishing. Thats a togal of 386 (impressed with my math skills, aren't you?) and I have to wonder what a new transmission would have cost me. Besides I am only leasing this car, so I am paying for a repair to someone else's vehicle. I think it's time to let it go, or let them hit lemon status and see what my rights are then.
Argh. Nonetheless, thanks for giving me some amunition for resolve. I appreciate it.
"The easier solution is to replace the Transmission fluid more frequently than called by the service schedule."
It would be nice if Honda could issue a "paper" schedule for the recent models that rely entirely on the maintenance reminder, with a disclaimer or whatever it takes. MSantos, do you have any links or info on this.
I am about to get my third transmission at 24,000 miles. And I already have a new hybrid battery (which is supposed to last for 80,000 miles). the lemon law in my state doesn't cover this situation and the dealership is happy to give me a new transmission, but who would ever buy this car - and I was just about to sell it. I am so disappointed and in researching on the web, it appears that nearly every site from carreviews to car complaints, to edmunds to consumer reports show serious problems with this model of the hybrid. I want a refund not new parts annually. Does anyone have experience in getting a refund.
I wish I knew of any "refund" examples to comfort you. Instead, the examples I know of are likely to do just the opposite - in part because many folks decided to not take the high road and burnt a few bridges along the way.
Have you spoken to a consumer advocate or lawyer yet?
If not, and until you do, I suggest that you collect as much information (as you probably have already) in terms of receipts, complaint dates, etc, as possible.
Also, try to remain cordial to the service personnel, for a hard as that may be, and write a few letters to you local or regional Honda office. Be VERY assertive, accurate in the description of your problems, and most of all... avoid demonstrations of anger - document everything they say.
In the meantime look up a consumer advocate or a specialized lawyer and just to find out what your odds are.
I do know of instances where the manufacturer offered a credit towards the purchase of a newer model. This (and others) may be an adequate negotiating route especially if you have willingness & energy to exploit these types of opportunities.
Please PM me if you wish additional details or clarifications.
Good luck;
MSantos
Sorry Mendel;
Honda has not released any additional information onto the channel pertaining to the servicing and maintenance of the new CVT units. However, they've done a much better job in outlining (rather explicitly and comprehensively) the related maintenance procedures in their service and training literature than they did for the previous model (2003-2005).
Also, Honda has made public the design and manufacturing measures that were accommodated for the new HCH Gen 2 model, in particular improvements to promote higher CVT reliability.
So far, the HCH Gen 2 CVT appears to be baselining quite well with very few reports of issues or problems.
Cheers;
MSantos
Thank you so much for this post.
When my HCH was in warranty I experienced the same problem and like everyone else, I had the CVT fluid changed. Again, like everyone else, it solved the issue for a few thousand miles; twice. Now at just over 50K miles and feeling the slipping again, I am also experiencing a dangerous jerking when starting off from a stop light while the AC is on. I have to turn off the AC, take off from the stop light and then turn it back on. Even then, there seems to be a strain to get up to speed, the battery is at half life and the mileage is way down. I also read the post about the batterying dying overnight. I think this has also started to occur.
This post may allow me to get to the root of the problem much more efficiently and the replies may give me recourse Honda does not resolve the issues to my satisfaction.
Good luck with your issue.
Jeanne
I don't know what Honda Dealer you're going to, but mine here in Rock Island, IL (Zimmerman) informed me that there was an extendended warrarnty issue from Honda that deals specifically with this issue. I have an '04 HCH with CVT and they are taking care of it. First, I had to have the starter/clutch burnished to see if that fixed it...which it did for one or two days....now, they've ordered a brand new start/clutch for the transmission and will replace the old one when it arrives...they are on back order though, so it might take a couple of weeks.
The cool thing, this was all covered by Honda, so it has cost me nothing...i'm even getting a loaner to drive when it's being repaired. Demand better service from your dealers! If you need specific information, call my dealership...it's called Zimmerman Honda....oh, and stay away from Lujack's...all they did was charge me an arm and a leg for a trans. fluid change....jerks.
I received an official warranty extension notice about this from Honda in the mail today. I've been noticing the "judder" in my '03 HCH for a few months now. I kept hoping it would just go away. :o But, since Honda says they will fix it for free, I guess I'll be taking my car in for service soon as I can! And, yes, the judder is just killer-bad on hills. Fortunately, living in the San Fernando Valley here in LA, I can easily avoid hills. Leastwise until this issue is fixed. :eek:
Out of stupid curiosity, does this problem affect MPG achieved?
On another note, sometimes (if I'm lucky!) I don't get the judder at all. But, most times it's there, all right. Not sure if how strongly one accelerates from a stop makes any difference.
Oh, and if you had paid to get this issue fixed, they're also apparently offering a refund. Instructions came with the notice detailing how to go about getting reimbursed. So, check your mail, folks! :)
You may or may not have noticed that there are two problems. One is a very faint and short "grinding" noise when taking off from a stop. It is really subtle unless you are attuned to it. The other is the hesitation/lurching/jerking or as it has come to be commonly known; bucking. Another side problem that seems to arise out of all of this is sluggishness, lack of power. You step on the gas and the car acts as if it’s still asleep and really doesn’t want to move. If you have not experienced it yet, you probably will and it is scary. Be very careful when pulling out into an intersection with oncoming traffic. If you don't get the problems fixed, they do get worse and from what I've heard and experienced, they are scary and dangerous.
I just had my warranty repair done and the problem seems to be MUCH better, but not gone completely. The problems do seem to affect the mileage as well as the IMA battery charging, but I cannot be sure if the mileage will again improve until I re-fill my tank as it was half full when the repairs were done; so, half of the mileage was with the problems and half of the mileage was after the fix. I do seem to see a slight improvement with the mileage and the IMA, so hopefully I'll see even more after I fill up again today. I'm going to wait a while to see if the slight hesitations I am still experiencing are just normal or if they get really bad again. The "grinding" noise is completely gone for the first time since I purchased the car, so that is good and I am no longer worried about it, but as I said before the jury is still out on the hesitation. I'm not going to wait too long though because my car is over 50,000 miles and I'm putting 100 miles per day on it, so the warranty will be up fast.
I'm just glad that Honda finally owned up to the issues and kept their reputation for quality and responsibility in tact. This could have been disastrous for them not to mention the environment and the popularity of hybrid technology. After some strong concerns about their integrity, I have been won back over. They finally stepped up to the plate before they were forced to do so. It will save them untold grief going forward and will enable them to keep their stronghold in the hybrid market. Prius may be more popular, but Honda has proven their superiority in my book with their style and integrity.
Thanks for the info, Jeanne!
So far I haven't noticed any grinding sound, just a shaky vibe when I start to move from a full stop. No hesitation/lurching/jerking (thank heavens!). I'll try to keep a more sensitive ear out for any grinding noise.
I'm going to take it into my Honda dealership soon as I can. I depend on my car (and it's my only car) for a lot, as do most people, I imagine, so being a full day without it is tough. I can only hope my dealership provides loaners. Otherwise I may have to take a day off work.
My car has only 25,000 miles on it, so I assume this is a problem of age and not miles driven?
The dealer did provide us with a loaner. It was an extremely large, red, truck that reaked of cigarettes, but it was a loaner. The "repairs" took about two and a half days and then I noticed that my stearing wheel is off kilter. It is no longer straight accross witht he dash (very uncomfortable). They are going to have to re-address the issue though because the jerking at slow speeds is still happening. The bucking problem with my car didn't begin until about 50 thousand miles, which seems to be pretty common.
I'll keep you posted and I would appreciate you doing the same.
Yum, cigarette reek! :(
Sounds like my problem is not near as severe as I've been reading from your post and others. Fro example, I drove it around a good amount of time yesterday, and only noticed the judder (maybe I don't know what "judder" really is?) and vibrations about half the time, or so. But I'll still have it looked at soon. Maybe they can "nip it in the bud" before it gets any worse in my case.
I just got the notice for the CVT Warranty Extension. I'm not sure what to do though since I have been complaining about this since I bought the car used last April (73,000 miles) and the dealership keeps saying that they don't feel it and I'm just not used to the CVT transmission. Maybe I should hit up a different dealership. Anyone have experience with one in Northeastern MA?
Thank God the notice came when it did because I am not at 91,000 miles and, at the rate I'm going, it would have expired by the summer.
Hey Pete,
I went to Commonwealth Honda in Lawrence, MA. It's just off 495. There was snow on the ground (Fri), and how they were able to differentiate between judder/slippage and tire spin I don't know, but they did say my CVT had the problem.
I've got an '05 w/ 55k.
Good luck.
Check out the new april consumer reports. They show the chart of Civic Hybrid reliability on P90.
The 03 Hybrid has 'worse than average" for Transmission, Major and "much worse than average" for Transmission, Minor. Overall it is not rated as high as the standard Civic sedan.
The 04 Hybrid has "average" in both categories.
The 05 Hybrid has "better than average" in both categories.
The 06 and 07 Hybrids are "much better than average" in both transmission categories.
It seems like the transmission problem in '03 is more widespread than Honda would like to admit.
I bought my 04 Hybrid new in May '04, it currently has around 48k on the clock. I've been very happy with it, often getting mileage as high as 60mpg for an entire tank in the late spring / early summer and not dropping below 40 even in miserably cold conditions.
Within the last ten thousand miles I started to notice a lag between accelerating and getting power and frequently a thud when it did finally kicked in. Similarly, taking my foot off the accelerator would have a delay before the charge cycle started and often quite a deceleration tug. The problem decreased some after the 40k service, but never totally went away. Then I noticed a creaking noise when accelerating at low speed.
A couple weeks ago I received a notice from Honda telling me they needed to check the CVT for problems with the starter clutch. Last week I took it in and they confirmed it had a judder while starting, which was enough for them to order the parts. I mentioned the other issues I was having and when I got it back after they'd looked at it, the power lag and charging problems had gone, replaced instead with a whirring noise when above 30 with a periodicity that increases with speed until around 50, when it either gets covered by the normal road noises or has gone. I also started to notice the judder issue, which may just be because I now know to look for it.
Anyway, today I dropped my car in for the CVT repair, I hope this fixes things, but pessimism is now a constant.
Hey Everyone.
I am new to the hybrid industry, and I am looking into buying a 2003 Civic Hybrid with 85k miles (5k over the warranty). It is for about $10k from a used car dealership which sells it "AS-IS".
Would you folks recommend buying this vehicle? Or should I leave it alone? Also, if I do purchase this vehicle without the warranty, can I still take it to a Honda place to get the problems fixed?
Thanks;
Josh
Josh;
I would only consider the car if you have access to its maintenance history. This means that it must have been maintained at a Honda dealership and therefore it has a pretty good chance of being a well maintained vehicle. Good maintenance in these cars means much more than just changing the oil and the tires and it includes all the hardware and software recalls that have been released since 2004.
I would also get a CarFax report to make sure it is neither a salvage nor flood car. There are too many of these being auctioned to and sold by unethical dealers. :(
If it is a manual transmission car I would check to see if the traction battery has been changed/replaced. If it has not, please add almost $5000 to the $10,000 and see if that is too high for you. If you decide it is OK, please commit to keep the car for a long time as this may be the only way to justify the up-front $15,000 price tag.
If it is a CVT car, then the battery is less of a problem but then I would seek to have the CVT looked at just to be sure.
Finally, even if the car is out of warranty you can still have it serviced at any Honda dealership (actually, you should as Honda hybrid techs are the only ones truly qualified to work on these cars).
Cheers;
MSantos
Thanks for the speedy reply!
Yes, it is an automatic transmission and the CarFax is clean and perfect.
We test drove it quickly at the dealership and the salesman was not very knowledgeable about the hybrids whatsoever. We looked in the maintenance book and the previous owner(s) did take car of it is appears.
I am a junior in high school right now and I just sold my old truck in order to buy a newer car. I saw this '03 Civic and was amazed at the price and it was quite enjoyable to drive. I just don't have extra money to put into this vehicle if it happens to have a lot of problems.
Before reading another thread on here, I didn't notice any "judder" or anything of that sort while I drove it, but I may not have been looking for it.
Thanks;
Josh
Since it is a CVT equipped vehicle then the odds are favorable for you. This means that the battery pack may still have much life left in it. Add a clean CarFax and a maintenance book with maintenance details and that makes it a much more palatable deal.
Under those conditions I would budget enough after purchase money for an inspection and compliance visit with the best Honda dealership you can find in your area. Have them report on the car and perform any applicable updates, recalls or needed maintenance - starting with a review of the cat converter, O2 sensors, EGR valve and CVT fluid replacement. Under these terms they should also offer a warranty for any work they do which should help ease any of your fears for the long run.
In any case, let us know if you decide to go for it.
Cheers;
MSantos
Hi everyone,
Wish I had found this page a while ago! I also own a 2003 HCV and have had the same judder problem many of you have had. I also have had my transmission/fluids changed, burnished and all that. However, after doing that twice on my own (and paying for it) I got a notice from Honda- a recall notice about that exact problem- and it stated that if you have previously paid to have the judder problem fixed, you can get reimbursed. So, today I faxed over a copy of the invoice from a 2006 repair job, proof of payment, and some other very basic info, and am getting reimbursed! So don't despair. :) Call honda. They were pretty accomodating so far, although I shouldn't say too much until I see the money.
I admit I haven't read all of these posts, although I read several, so if this is repeat information, I apologize! Just thought some of you sounded a lot like me, and maybe you can get your money back from some of your repairs...
Carmen
Once again, great service from you! Thanks!
How much are new battery packs? Also, we checked on the warranty information and it is like two or three grand for only a few years. Would it be beneficial to do that? The warranty apparently does not even cover the battery packs! How do we know how much life it left in them?
So other than the battery packs (which I assume are completely different than the 12V battery near the engine -- they are mounted under the rear seat, correct?) this CHC requires the same care and maintenance as any other vehicle? Is that correct to assume?
Thanks;
Josh
Josh:
A new battery pack will cost a little over $4000 which will include labor. However, if a replacement ever becomes necessary just contact Honda and they may step in (as they almost always do) to pay for half of the cost.
The battery pack on that car may still have a lifetime worth vitality left in it. It all depends on how and where it was driven and there is no easy way to tell how good it is. When it comes to shop testing battery packs they are either good or bad. You'll have to drive the car for a while to determine if the charge/recharge cycle trends normally or not.
It may be worth getting the warranty if only for the mechanicals and emissions equipment until you know for sure how dependable these are. I hope the hybrid specific components may be in good enough shape to help with the lack of coverage.
Yes, the battery pack behind the rear seat. The servicing of the HCH is essentially identical to that of any other regular gas powered vehicle albeit with a lower frequency of service... and a slightly different set of maintenance attributes. In any case, if you do get the car don't forget to read the owners manual. You can buy/download one online if you need to.
Cheers;
MSantos
Hey MSantos - once again, thanks for all your help.
I was reading another post on this website, and it said that the CA govt ensures that the hybrid battery will last till 150k miles, and if not, they are forced to replace it. Is this true/where can I find out more about this?
Thanks;
Josh
Absolutely true if you live in California and it is a California car. Contact your nearest dealership or Honda Corporate for specific details (have the VIN number at hand when speaking to them).
Cheers;
MSantos
Unfortunately, I have a Hibryd too. I had problems since the very beginning: transmission,battery..
I will vener again buy another Honda .The so called extended warranty is so limited and not practical, at all. You must have your car on the shop for at least one day and it has to be verfied by
American Honda. My Toyota was so simple. You took it in you got a rental if you did not want to wait for the whole day. No questions asked. It was a given that your Penske,extended warraty,would cover anything. The only reason why I got this piece if junk was the trunk. The Prius does not have one.
The whole idea of a Hybrid was so overrated. The maintenance is expensive and as we all know the mileage is not what they promised. You can almost get the very same mileage from a small
regular car and save money with lower maintenace.
sorry to sound so pesimistic but it is my reality.
There is a recall for the SRS problem. Just take your car to the dealer. According to the recall, the dealer will fix the problem free of charge if your car is withing the extended warranty time/mileage period.
Well this is a really helpful topic for cvt owners
i have a honda city 2k3 with cvt, there is kind of grinding noise from the transmission when the car is in reverse gear, the noise only comes when the brake pedal is pushed while in reverse gear and vanished as soon as i release the brake pedal. The noise seems like to be a result of some vibration.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regrads.
Time to take it to the dealer for an inspection of the CVT. I suspect the issue may lie with the reverse clutch (adjustment or replacement) or it may all be simply resolved with a standard CVT burnish operation.
Cheers;
MSantos
I have an '05 HCH, and my CVT hesitates between "gears" sometimes. If I floor it (which is probably a bad idea) sometimes the CVT doesn't engage after "1st" and the RPM will shoot up and I have to take my foot off the gas. Sometimes it will hesitate cold too, and jerk into gear.
After reading through this (the first posts at least) I think that it could be a combo of the belt, CVT clutch, and needs a fluid change (it's due).
My second problem is that sometimes when I reverse, and then go forward, I heard metallic clicks that come from the front. It's worse when it's cold. It almost disappears when it's warm (I only noticed it once since it got warmer). Sometimes it also happens when I turn. My friend said that it sounded like CV joints, but she's not familiar with HCH's. Anyone have this happen?
please email me if you know, I might not find my way back here;
falkedernacht37@aol.com
hey guys,
i am a honda tech in virginia and the problem with the civic cvt has nothing to do with the band and everything to do with a part called the start clutch the plates inside the start clutch get worn and cause the judder. in the early stages doing the burnish will clear it up but eventually once the mileage gets high enough it will not fix it and the start clutch needs to be replaced. (trust me i have done more start clutches than i can count) luckily honda will cover this repair up to 110K miles or 7 years i believe (they keep extending it).
now in my personal opinion if you own a 2003-2005 civic hybrid SELL IT! that car will not last much past 110K, first you will need to have both catalytic converters replaced (yes it has two) that will cost about 5000 dollars (i have worked on cars where we have replaced 3 or 4 sets of cats) then the start clutch will need to be replaced that will cost about 1-2 thousand dollars.
also at around 100K the IMA battery will go bad costing about 5000 dollars to be replaced.
but the worst part that no one seems to be complaining about the metal band inside the transmission will break (again replaced more than i can count) when this happens you will have to replace the transmission because it cannot be rebuild. this will cost at least 5000.
not to mention EGR valves and the fact that the civic hybrid goes through tires about every 30K.
My 2003 Civic Hybrid has the same problem mentioned by everyone else. Has had 3-4 fluid flushes and the burnishing. They burnished it a second time when I just brought it in and called to say it was fine, I told them "NO, it is definitely NOT fine to have this much trouble with a Honda transmission at 80,000!! I'm not picking my car up until you guys really fix it. I don't want another patch up job so that it can break again as soon as the warranty is over. I want a new transmission."
They are currently installing a rebuilt transmission. A compromise I guess. But if I have a single problem with it I'm going right back and tell them to take the piece of shit out of my car and maybe they should stop selling bogus parts to people and making their cars unreliable. Honda's reputation for quality and reliability is why people purchase these vehicles. But the newest crop of Hondas, other models too, not just Hybrids, have SERIOUS problems with them. I hope word gets out and Honda is pressured into better customer service, into making better parts, and into making right what they have done wrong.
~~One VERY IMPORTANT thing:
****DO NOT LET HONDA CHARGE YOU FOR ANY REPAIRS TO FIX YOUR TRANSMISSION SLIPPING/JUDDER!!!!!!!!!!!! ***********
There is a service bulletin out for these hybrid vehicles, especially the 2003 one. Our service bulletin clearly says that Honda is responsible for the defects and that since SO many people have complained, they are fixing them FOR FREE UNTIL 100,000 miles!
*****IF YOUR DEALER CHARGED YOU ANYTHING FOR TRANS FLUID OR FLUSH OR BURNISH YOU SHOULD CONTACT HONDA FOR A REFUND. ******
THE DEALER RIPPED YOU OFF B/C HE FIGURES YOU WONT KNOW ABOUT THE BULLETIN, since they obviously don't publicize them, and lie about them through omission to their loyal customers. If a dealer charged you even a "deductible' (or made you pay half, anything) you deserve a refund. ALL WORK ON THIS PROBLEM IS DONE FOR FREE AND A LOANER VEHICLE IS TO BE PROVIDED FOR ALL TIME THEY HAVE YOUR CAR!!!! (they put me in a Toyota RAV4- I think it's ironic that they'd give me a TOYOTA to drive when my HONDA IS BROKEN- way to go showing off how your competition is more reliable!!! STUPID. and they totally stuck-it-to-me by giving me an SUV- kinda funny though, to make someone w/a hybrid drive an SUV loaner car- I've already put as much gas in it as I would use in 2 weeks in my car- I hope it's done very soon!) If you give your dealer money, expecting that he is being honest, think again, do research and PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST LYING DEALERSHIPS!! They will charge you double or triple what the actual cost is for them, or for that matter, what you would pay if you went to an honest mechanic not a dealership. THEY KEEP ALL YOUR MONEY-- they can put it right in their pocket and buy their wife some nice jewelry that evening... because they've already submitted your claim to HONDA, it is NOT YOUR EXTENDED WARRANTY, even if you have NO WARRANTY- HONDA IS REQUIRED TO FIX YOUR VEHICLE IF IT IS UNDER 100,000 miles.
I have been on many sites where people reported paying thousands of dollars to repair this problem... It makes me angry that they are being ripped off by honda. It makes me think really low of Honda that they'd ALL KNOW ABOUT THE PROBLEM (from the bulletin- your dealer DOES KNOW) but try to lie to their customers that they don't know and then CHARGE THEM for the manufacturer's faulty design!! I am SO SO SO lucky that my dealer was SORTA honest. It took me 2 years and many trips there, but they did the fluid changes for free and the burnishing. I'm sure they would have NEVER told me about the bulletin, that it wasn't just me, or that Honda could repair the entire trans for free, but my persistence paid off! I finally confronted a tech in their service department. I told him that I was tired of being lied to and that I knew that there was a big problem with my transmission. That I had known about it since I bought the car, just because of the feel and the noise. I had faith in them for a while and listened to their bullshit, but I told him I was done and they need to be straight with me. THAT'S when they told me about the bulletin... which made me think- HOLY CRAP I GOT A LEMON! They also told me "not enough people have complained, so we don't have to do a recall, but if people complain we can fix it for free. Great way to sweep it under the carpet so that the American public doesn't find out about it!! This information, coupled with their attitude of "oh well, not ENOUGH of our cars suck to recall the ones that do" made me start digging into the problem- that's when I realized what a BIG problem it really is. I've gotten more and more angry the more I look into this- and other Honda defect horror stories! WHAT THE HELL~!?! I am just TOTALLY DISGUSTED WITH HONDA.
I have had many Hondas, my mother and I both have only owned Hondas for a while. Even her motorcycle and my brother's dirt bike are honda!!!!! I've gotten WELL OVER 100,000 with no problems, and only had to replace minor wear and tear things well into the upper 100,000s.
However, I can ASSURE you, I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HONDA VEHICLE, PART OR ANY OTHER PRODUCT MADE BY HONDA!!
I am also telling everyone I know how crappy they are and that they should never get a honda hybrid especially. I even tell random customers that chat with me at work. I want the WHOLE WORLD TO KNOW THAT HONDA IS NO LONGER AN HONEST, RELIABLE, QUALITY COMPANY!!!!!!
** Stand up for yourselves. Talk to some mechanics or friends- someone who can give you a free and honest opinion, or at least do more research. Do not let the dealerships push you around until your car has no warranty and you're left with a $20 something thousand piece of crap car. If you notice even a TINY problem with your trans, take it in right away, tell them upfront that you know about the bulletin and that you would like them to replace your transmission. They will probably tell you about the burnishing. That they have to do that first. You can tell them that if they did THEIR research they'd know that it doesn't fix the problem AT ALL. If they insist on doing that first, which they probably will, I would kindly tell them that you will see them in a month or two when your transmission starts going bad again and that the next time you see them you expect a replacement transmission. When you go in the next time, after the burnishing doesn't work, then when you call to make the appointment, tell them to order your parts, they probably wont, but they will know that you know what the heck is going on and that they aren't getting away with another phoney burnishing trick!!!!! You have to DEMAND things, and BOTHER THEM. Squeaky wheel gets oiled first. I didn't realize till this how being a bitch really does pay off. Nice guys do finish last...
In conclusion- I like my little car, but
1.) The repairs make saving gas money pointless- since down the road repairs will cost more than you will EVER save on gas.
2.) The repairs make saving the clean air pointless- since all the thrown away and recycled parts are bad for the environment and will cost more fuel to process and create more pollution than if you just had a regular RELIABLE vehicle.
I have a 2003 civic hybrid and have had some problems with the CVT like a lot of other people. the real fix is to have someone do a full fluid flush and put in new CVT fluid from honda. The dealer I went to only did a drain and fill which replaces aproximately 50 or 60% of the fluid. I went to an independent service station that has a power flush machine for transmissions. He drained the standard AT fluid from the machine and used the Honda CVT fluid. This required a few extra quarts above and beyond what the CVT needs so it is a little more expensive (Honda CVT fluid costs $9-$14 per quart) but I have been able to go a lot longer (>30,000 miles) before needing to do it again. If you only do the drain and fill you'll only get 5,000 or 10,000 or at most 20,000 miles before needing it again. by the way the dealer charged about $100.00 for his service and the independent garage charged less than $200.00 to do it the right way.
If you just buy enough bottles for 3 changes you'll have virtually flushed the system, ie: there will be very little of the original fluid remaining. Personally I'm opting to do *single* changes, myself, more frequently, say yearly. Doing this means you've *nearly* replaced all your fluid bi-annually, and there's a steady supply of fresh fluid.
Wow. I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid that I bought new early in 2003. Like the rest of you, I had a problem with my transmission at 54,000 miles in 2005. It was replaced with a new transmission for $2913.57-under warranty at no cost to me -luckily. The interesting thing here to note is, I did not have an extended warranty. The transmission was out of warranty at 36,000 miles. However, because I returned to the dealer for every service like clockwork, they covered the transmission even though it was out of warranty. They also covered a replacement IMA battery pack at 118,000 miles even though it too was out of warranty. Currently, I have 164,000 miles on my 03 Civic Hybrid. Even though the transmission was replaced, it never failed to get me where I needed to go and even though the batteries were replaced, the car was still completely drivable with the warning light on.
I'm an engineer, so I record everything. Right down to every single gas receipt for the past six years. To this day, I still achieve over 40 actual miles per gallon average as long as I don't let my leadfoot wife drive the car (although the car’s optimistic computer shows more like 42 as an average for each tank).
All told, I have spent just under $7,000 in maintenance and repairs (including new windshield, tires, 12 V battery, window tint, etc.) which works out to about FOUR CENTS PER MILE. Adding in the cost of insurance, purchase price, license, fuel, and maintenance together, the vehicle still only cost me $.27 per mile to operate! With reimbursement from the Feds at $.50 per mile, I actually make money using it for work.
The previous posts seem to have one thing in common and that is a lack of diligent, timely maintenance by a quality dealer. Reading through the posts, I saw comments like, "I perform all the maintenance myself", "I took it to my mechanic (non-Honda)", and several like, "another mechanic I know said...".
There are four Honda dealers closer to my house than the one I take it to, but my dealer in Ventura, although 23 miles away, is a consistent President's award winner year-over-year for service and that's why I go there (and admittedly pay a little bit more). Without a doubt, this Civic is the best car I've ever owned (and I've owned British cars, American cars, German cars, and Japanese cars over the last 25 years). My only recommendation to people buying technologically sophisticated vehicles is this; Don't cheap out on the maintenance. Hybrid vehicles are nothing like your 1970 Chevy Nova.
In the summer of 2007, American Honda Motor Co. released a warranty extension to all documented owners of 2001 to 2005 Civic GX, Civic HX, Insight, or 2003 to 2005 Civic hybrids with the CVT. The warranty extension covers the CVT for judder or slippage for seven years or 100,000 miles. The extended warranty also covers you if you have already paid for CVT repair for judder or slippage and the mailer even came with a Request for Reimbursement form enclosed. To be documented, you only need to see your dealer or go online and register. As a side note, I wonder how many people got their ECM computers reprogrammed? Because that's something that needs to be done as well, and is supposed to be done for free.
unfortunately, i never came across this site.(argh!!). i just bought a used 03 civic hybrid car and already have a transmission problem. i took for maintanance and the diagnosis came out as error code:70-02 A/T system malfunction. what do i do?
Wayne from California wrote, in part:
"The previous posts seem to have one thing in common and that is a lack of diligent, timely maintenance by a quality dealer"
Dealership maintenance can be a two edged sword, imho. Yes they are more knowledgable, have the service bulletins, have all the tools, including the ones for interfacing with the car's computer.
But they also tend to be under the gun for time and money. Maybe the "healthiest" situation is one where the owner takes a hand in at least the mundane maintenance, but stays in touch with dealership's service department.
The service manager is a big factor. If they are receptive/informative, it goes good. If they "talk down to you", and bluff, it's well: bad.
well, it seems i got ahold of a2005 hx civic w/cvt. Im glad im not the only one having problems. bought the car used w/ 49k.im at 99k now.had 2 trans flushes and the burnish nonsense. bought useless warranty just in case. they denied claim because although i had receipts for the fluid i indicated 60k for my service.i guess honda and the warranty company wanted specifics like 60204mls. anyway, problem back, but i think ill go annoy one of these crazy dealers and see if i can get that trans replaced.like the car fine.i usually get between 33 and 38 mpg and everything else works. I am also getting some hesistation pulling off from a stop and some groining/grinding coming to a stop. any pointers dealing with this would be greatly appreciated.
how are the feds paying to use the 2003 hybrid civic? i have the same car and have no idea what your talking about can you please explain thanks
I have 2005 Civic Hybrid. I bought it new with hybrid tax credit then and I have 110K now. It is still original brakes since I don't brake too hard and mostly highway driving. I do my own car maintenance which doesn't require too much work other than 5K synthetic oil and filter change; 15K air filter change; 20K CVT transmission fluid change (although factory recommended 30K change); 100K spark plug replacement; 45K cabin filter replacement; 50K PVC value replacement; 7K tire rotation. Everything is still original (include both 12V and hybrid battery) except I replace my OEM tires around 60K. I live in Boston; and I am still getting 47 MPG. I am expecting to get at least 200K and more out of this car. I don't want to be slave for the Arabs and I used resources as what I need.
Hello, I have a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid, bought it new with a Honda Care 7 year/70,000 mile warranty. About 8 months ago I had this problem and the dealership changed the fluids and paid for everything since I have a Honda Care warranty. It came back a month ago and I took it in and they recommended replacing the starter clutch. They said it is a 2 step process, if a customer comes in for the problem, the first step is to put in new fluids. The second time they replace the starter clutch. I didn't pay a penny for either steps, and it is smooth and noiseless now =).
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