'09 FEH/MMH

This might be the patent on the new Intake Variable Cam Timing (IVCT) that the '09 2.5L is using. I was wondering how this works since Ford hasn't provided much information on the new engine design. The patent says it's an improvement to the Honda design.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6886533.html?highlight=ford,global,tech...

"Tt is an advantage of the present invention that a system and method according to this invention will allow excellent charge motion without the pumping work associated with a cam switching system.

It is another advantage of the present invention that the need for a charge motion control valve will be eliminated for engines otherwise requiring high charge motion at idle and low-speed operation, or more generally, part load conditions.

It is a further advantage of the present invention that an engine equipped with a valve control system according to the present invention will be capable of not only high specific output but also excellent charge motion at part load conditions."

GaryG

The present 2.3L Atkinson goes to 100% load and motor assist far to easy. The load the generator puts on the 2.3L engine alone really limits the available torque for acceleration. From reading the patent, I can see the new IVCT 2.5L should be a big improvement depending on how Ford works this into the Atkinson Cycle intake valve arrangement. I would think the IVCT system would allow Ford to fine-tune the Atkinson Cycle with much better torque and FE. What I'm very interested to see is how FE will improve while running the A/C compressor. The 2.3L is dragged down to much in FE running the A/C with its low torque now IMO.

So yes, climbing hills should be better for FE, the way I climb hills anyway. I need more torque with low RPM's for better FE overall than the present 2.3L we have now. I like to reserve motor assist and the battery for pure EV driving later at a steady state speed for the best FE.

GaryG

Thanks for digging up this information. Good for those in the market for replacement tires in the future.

In several months you should have your 2009 FEH. Many of us are going to have a ton of interesting reading material via your reports. You might as well ask the forums you contribute to for a 2009 only FEH column.

I did not previously notice the Goodyear tires on the PHEV FEH as I was more attracted to the other features. If you got your hands on one of these for your daily drive, you could say "its a triple digit drive" today.

Things are looking GOOD for the new '09 2.5L powertrain. Does this mean higher EV speeds?

Ford Previews Next-Generation Hybrids
14 February 2008

by Jack Rosebro

Speaking at the 2008 SAE Hybrid Vehicle Technology Symposium in San Diego yesterday, Sherif Markaby, Global Core Engineer for hybrids at Ford Motor Company, provided some technical details of the coming 2009 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids, due at the end of the year, as well as of the 2009 Escape and Mariner hybrids, which are scheduled to be released in a few months.

All four hybrids will share a new powertrain that combines a 2.5L inline four-cylinder engine with a series-parallel transaxle. While the basic layout and packaging of the powertrain and related components remains for the most part unchanged from the 2005-2008 Escape component architecture, many of those components have been redesigned for improved efficiency.

Markaby also noted that Ford has sold 70,000 Escape hybrids to date, and that some units have reached 200,000 miles in service with no service problems.

The next-generation hybrid system applied in the Fusion, for example, will provide a more than 60% improvement in city cycle fuel economy over a non-hybrid I4 engine, Markaby said, and a more than 80% improvement over a V6 on the city cycle.

Variable-Voltage Converter (VVC). The new powertrain’s inverter assembly utilizes a DC-DC buck-boost converter, which Ford refers to as a Variable-Voltage Converter, to step up the voltage potential of current from the battery pack before it is synthesized into a three-phase AC waveform to power the transaxle’s two electric motor-generators.

Every model-year 2004 and up Toyota/Lexus hybrids utilizes a buck-boost converter; however, this is the first time that the architecture has been employed in a mass-produced passenger hybrid vehicle built by another manufacturer.

Stepping up voltage allows the powertrain to produce a given output using less current, which reduces resistance losses and increases efficiency. It also allows the manufacturer to use a smaller, lighter battery: the 275V, 5.5Ah, 27 kW peak power NiMH battery pack used in the new Fusion/Milan hybrids features improved cell chemistry, and is more compact, for example, than the 2005-2008 Escape hybrid’s 330V battery pack.

One of the most important attributes of VVC, according to Markaby, is “reducing the cost of the battery.” Previous Escape and Mariner hybrids used a stand-alone air conditioning loop to cool the battery pack during peak operating temperatures: the new powertrain uses only a forced-air ventilation system.

High-Efficiency Internal Combustion Engine (ICE). The 2.5L iVCT I-4 engine gets variable valve timing on the intake side (Intake Variable Cam Timing, iVCT), as well as a wide-band lambda sensor in place of a conventional oxygen sensor. The compression ratio in the engine is 12.3:1.

Idle-stop and start events are much quicker, and enable greater efficiency with as many as two times the starts and stops in a given driving cycle as the previous system. The quicker engine shut-downs and pre-positioning (for the next start) also reduces O2 build-up in the engine’s catalyst. Decel Fuel Shut-Off (DFSO) mode and electric-only mode have also been expanded.

High-Efficiency DC-DC Converter. The conventional DC-DC converter, which steps down system voltage to run the vehicle’s 12V accessory bus and charge the auxiliary 12V battery, has been redesigned to operate at higher temperatures. The unit remains liquid cooled, and can switch at higher frequencies.
Ford_hybrid_torque
The VVC variably boosts traction battery voltage to operate the motor and generator more efficiently. Click to enlarge.

High-Efficiency Transaxle. The maximum RPM of the new transaxle’s permanent-magnet synchronous motor-generators has been increased, and a new low-drag transaxle fluid has been formulated. The higher available voltages from the variable-voltage converter allow greater torque at higher speeds. Typically, such voltages also enable a more efficient recuperation of kinetic energy via regenerative braking.

Update on the SCE PHEVs. Markaby also made mention of the plug-in hybrid Escapes that Ford is delivering to Southern California Edison (SCE) for V2G research. The PHEV Escapes use a 10kWh Li-ion battery pack, and are getting as much as 120 MPG in testing. The PHEV powertrain operates in three distinct modes: electric drive (ED) mode, blended mode (a combination of engine operation and charge-depleting electric drive), and conventional hybrid mode.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/ford-previews-n.html

GaryG

GaryG, I've been looking into Ethos Fuel Re-formulator.

It a product that is suppose to help an enigne burn fuel better. Its hard to find anyone that has actually used it. Which usally means its a crap shoot.

Do you know of anyone that has tried this in a hybrid to get more milage out of the engine?

Do you think the lambda sensor would have trouble with it?

pauli

I'm seeing on other forums more and more interest in ordering and finding information on ordering the '09 FEH/MMH. In fact, other forums have people talking about what we have discussed here on Hybridcars.com.

Most of you don't know what it's like getting over 600 miles on a 15 gallon tank of gas, but I'll tell you it feels great knowing I picked a vehicle over 3 yrs ago that can if you work at it. I just looked at my trip OD and I have 539.3 miles on it with a 111 miles to empty reading. This will put me at 650.3 miles at 0 MTE with 1.3 gallons left in the tank. This means I could go over 700 miles if I need to before fill-up.

Why am I going to sell my '05 FEH when it get this kind of mileage? Because the resale value is so high, and I know the '09 will most likely perform better and have a great resale value 3 years from now. Also, interest rates were great in '05, and there great now.

Ranger 1 good luck with your vehicle. Let everyone know how it is going.

Looks Like Ford is joining Toyota and others on ordering packages.

By AMY WILSON, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

As part of Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally's campaign to reduce complexity, the company is slashing the number of available equipment combinations on 2009-model vehicles.

Ford will reduce vehicle order combinations by more than 50 percent, say dealers who have been briefed on the plan.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080218/FREE/9084850...

That's not the FEH Billy, there is no HV battery vent and I also thought the fuel filler door was removed and a capless system was new for all the '09's. The black one has the optional 17" x 7" wheels that's not available on the FEH. The cream colored one has rims I don't see available in the '09 Escape ordering guide, must be available only on the Mariner. Also, where is the new chin spoiler on the front or the rear tire spoilers? You think those tires are michelin?

Just kidding around with you, but I'd really like to see some close-up pictures of a Black Limited FEH inside and out. The ordering guide said the Escape comes with disc brakes in the front and drum brakes in the rear. Nothing about the Hybrid rear disc brakes. I hope they didn't change that on the '09 FEH/MMH because of all the noise problems people were having. You know, I've never had the disc brake dust problem you get on most front rims, even on my rear disc brakes on my FEH.

2009 Escape Hybrid will use rear drum brakes.
Rear drums are more compatible with roll stability control,
said Ford safety spofesman Wes Sherwood.

Billy, I'm going to ride the fence on the remarks 0T7 brought up because I had the same thoughts if Ford did a change back to rear drum brakes. The problem is, the Edge or the Explorer don't have regen in addition. It would seem to me Ford went to rear disc because of more roll drag resistance of drum brakes. I'm sure the answer will be solve in the near future when we start seeing delivery of the '09 FEH/MMH. Also, 0T7 could post a link of Wes Sherwood's comments to help us all see the exact wording of what he said.

Since someone brought this up, I am very curious about this question about four-wheel disc brakes.

We had an early 90's Mercury Sable wagon that had ABS and 4-wheel discs and I'm sure that our 2001 Escape did too. However, my 2004 Taurus has rear drums but our 2008 FEH has 4-wheel discs.

I always thought 4-wheel discs were considered superior and that manufacturers had adopted it exclusively. Wonder why that isn't so.

Thanks 0T7,

Just a simple cut and paste:

Q: Any explanation why Ford put drum brakes on the rear wheels of the Escape? Was that one of Ford's "better ideas?"

—I.C., Willowbrook

A: Yes it was. Ford switched from rear disc brakes to drums on 2008 gas-powered Escapes because rear drums are more compatible with roll stability control, said Ford safety spokesman Wes Sherwood. Ford 2009 hybrid Escapes will use rear drums as well to accommodate roll stability control.

Billy, it could be a programming conflict like Ford had with the PAT system on the '05 FEH and was resolved on the '06. It also could be a cost issue or a combination of both. We know regen is not driven off the rear wheels, but they all work together for a smooth braking system.

I agree that Ford will work out the bugs like they have in the past and when they do, the gas Escape will more than likely get rear disc also. I think it's about cost mainly right now.

Another reason I ordered the Navigational system:

"Another important aspect of Sync is, being software-based, it is highly updateable. Sync customers can update to the next-generation phone or iPod, for example. Ford can add services as well: In January, the automaker announced the addition of a “911 Assist” feature that will enable Sync to connect with emergency assistance in the event of an air-bag deployment.

And Sync will be the conduit by which Ford will become the first automaker to offer Sirius Travel Link, a new navigation system that will provide up-to-the-minute information and entertainment content — including local movie shows and times, real-time traffic information for 78 markets, and current gas prices from an estimated 120,000 filling stations nationwide."
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/04/ford-microsoft.html
Good article!

Information on the '09 FEH/MMH is starting to flow a little, here is another article:
http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/ID/...

Ok, how this for more information on the Michelin Latitude Tour design.

Also, it looks like the gas Escapes have gone to electric power assist like our FEH/MMH.

"* Escape and Mariner feature new low-rolling-resistance tires, developed in cooperation with Michelin.
The new 16-inch Michelin Latitude Tour design features a unique mold design, reduced weight and a new-generation tread pattern optimized for reduced fuel consumption.
* Aerodynamic refinements that account for increased fuel efficiency include a redesigned front bumper spoiler and new rear tire spoilers, the first application on a Ford SUV.
* Additionally, Electric Power Assist Steering (EPAS) is featured on both the standard and hybrid models of Escape and Mariner. EPAS replaces the traditional hydraulic power steering pump. Because it operates only when required for steering assistance, it contributes to lower fuel consumption than the hydraulic pump, which operated constantly during engine operation."
http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news-announcements/press-releases/press-r...

More info I haven't seen till now.

Electric power steering is becoming increasingly common on cars and I think the '08 gasoline Escapes and Mariners had it, too.

It does reduce drag on the engine which boosts efficiency slightly, plus it reduces weight and complexity slightly. It is used on hybrids so that power steering is still available when the ICE cycles off.

Hey Gary,

I too saw that article and was thinking the same thing on the VVC. I was wondering when you would start drooling about that tidbit. If true it will be a great change. I have searched hard for many months now to get an indication of the 09 FEH EPA ratings to see if there is an expectation of better mileage, To no avail. We have all seen the Auto Show news clips saying the regular eascapes are bumping up a bit but not the Hybrid...... This all seems fishy, like Ford is holding a card in their sleeve. Does anyone have any "sound" information on the MPG's for the 2009? It would really hit the competition hard if Ford squeaked 1-2 more published MPG over the 2008's - And also put additional distance between the standard ICE (economy) vehicles that are closing the gap.. I know all the Hypermilers here will advantage the new running gear - but it would be good to see the increases in the published numbers as well. At the same time it will piss me off if Ford is holding back on some easy (no cost) tweaks - only to put them in play for 2010.... Ie: keeping the card in their sleeve till next year.

I also called my buyer last friday, he told me the Ford Factory rep was going to have my vechicle "scheduled" by monday this week... I called again on Wed this week, and my buyer told me that ford stopped scheduling ALL escapes ( FEH and Regulars) for another week - did not know the reason.... He did say he expects it to be scheduled in the next week and could be delivered sometime late June but more likley early July This guy has a lot of integrity and if it was not coming till Dec, he would tell me as straight as he is hearing it. He also told me that according to Ford I am the #1 on the list for Colorado and very high nationally. The race is still on Gary! Twin Black Pearl Slate's!

Not sure getting a early vehicle off the line is the best thing - but that is what the warranty is for.

Oops, I meant to say 2.3 L. I don't even know my own car.

I have read that the GM Volt will have a heating and cooling system for its hybrid battery. We also know that GM had trouble with the battery in its EV1 in cold and hot environments. I have come across reports of the Toyota Prius hybrid battery cells swelling in several reports. Deleting he hybrid battery heating/cooling system could "save" cash for Ford but is this a case of short term savings but longer term problems?

Gary G. this is for you as it looks like it might be awhile for the Prius to sport a Volt like battery: link: http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=12&blogid...

But what goes around, comes around. It is very possible that the reason carmakers like Toyota and Honda aren't developing advanced plug-in hybrids isn't because they don't believe in it.

It may be because, legally, they can't.

How's that?

All production hybrids today use nickel metal hydride batteries, a technology developed and patented by Energy Conversion Devices (ECD), whose Cobasys spin-off joint-venture with ChevronTexaco owns the worldwide patent rights. To its credit and its stockholders benefit, the company has been aggressive in protecting those rights suing the likes of Panasonic, Sanyo, Toshiba, and Yuasa, forcing them to become licensees who must pay a 3% royalty to the company for each battery they build.

From research done by Charles Whalen and others, it appears that those licenses are very restrictive. They apparently limit the power of the batteries and their applications, with Cobasys reserving the right to be the sole manufacturer of batteries for electric-drive vehicles in North America.

In a limited circulation, private email, Whalen -- who is an occasional EV World contributor -- speculated that "although the specific terms are confidential, this stipulation in Panasonic's license restricting it to producing only 'certain types' of NiMH batteries for 'certain transportation applications' is widely interpreted and understood to mean that Panasonic can only produce HEV (hybrid-electric vehicle) batteries (<10Ah) but not BEV (battery electric vehicles) batteries (>80Ah) for vehicles sold in North America until 2015. Where this line is specifically drawn in Panasonic's license, whether it's closer to 10Ah or closer to 80Ah, is an interesting question, which of course we don't know the answer to. But the answer to that question is indeed very important because it is in that middle ground that we find the capacity range for PHEVs".

Panasonic is the exclusive manufacturer of the batteries used in the Prius, Highlander Hybrid and Lexus RX400h hybrids. Whalen is suggesting that the reason Toyota isn't interested in building plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) isn't because they don't want to. It's because they can't under Panasonic's license agreement with Cobasys. A plug-in hybrid that has a 20 to 60 miles of electric-only range would require a battery pack much larger than the 10 amp hour restriction of the license.

Whalen asserts that Panasonic does, in fact, have a 95Ah battery that could be used in plug-in hybrids, but that it has mysteriously disappeared from Panasonic's online catalog. He believes the reason has to do with the $30 million judgment against Panasonic and Toyota for patent infringement.

This is also why Toyota stopped making the RAV4 EV. It too required a battery pack much larger than the 10Ah limitation of the Cobasys license.

Another article on the increase in the '09 FEH EV speed:

"Another tweak for 2009 was increasing the electric-only mode to a healthy 40 mph (65 km/h). With a light foot during acceleration or while at a constant cruising speed, the 2009 Escape Hybrid could get most people to work within city limits on battery alone."
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jb/2009-ford-escape.php

This baby has the new VVC!

Now that it appears that the '09 FEH/MMH eCVT has the new Variable Voltage Converter (VVC), I thought it would be nice that new buyers understand what that means. Toyota changed in 2004 to the Buck-Boost Converter I've posted about. This link will help you understand why the '09 FEH/MMH has increased in EV speed and efficiency.
http://ecow.engr.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/getbig/ece/491/lorenz/priuspower/toyot...

EPA ratings are the same, but real mileage is going up, up, up!

More confirmation on EV speed:

"Every chance it gets, the Escape seamlessly shuts the gas engine down and runs off batteries. Like all Hybrids, mileage depends upon how you drive. If you're ready for the possibility of the person behind you exiting their vehicle, running up and bashing your skull in with a mallet (I love LA), very gentle throttle inputs will keep the gas motor at bay up to 40 mph. Even the Lexus LS600hL can only pull off that trick up to 30 mph. When no other cars are present you can hypermile your gas - electric Ford to 60 mpg around town."
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009-ford-escape-hybrid-review/

Wow, wonder what this baby will do around my town in Jupiter FL.

This morning's 2009 FEH production update from my dealer: "Ford has pushed production of the '09 hybrids to the middle of July or the 1st of August."

This list of equipment for the '09 FEH shows 4 wheel disc brakes.

http://autos.aol.com/cars-Ford-Escape+Hybrid-2009/equipment

That only proves the guy who made up the list knows nothing about the eCVT and seen "L" and "D" and ask a salesman does it have overdrive.

This was about the third place I've seen that list the '09 as having 4 wheel disc brakes. Found another today that a dealership listed the '09 FEH equipment that included 4 wheel disc brake. That picture in the Factory of those '09 FEH's being built for the CA Lifeguards had 4 wheel disc brakes also. This may prove to be an all to do about nothing and the FEH/MMH retained 4 wheel disc brakes. At least we know that the eCVT is not two speeds with overdrive.

Even with my '05 FWD FEH, I can tell the faster in EV I go, the quicker the battery drains. The battery will not drop as far (~ 41.6%) before a restart if I'm doing say 35mph in EV. Below 30mph the battery SoC will drop below 40% before a restart. If the new VVC has been added to the '09, Ford has said the transfer of energy would be much more efficient. Since the size and 330V battery remains, it should mean further distances in EV mode.

In two of the test drives reported on the '09 FEH, they mention having a high battery SoC was needed to get to 40mph. This sounds a little strange to me because as long as I have over ~42%, I can hold 38-39mph in EV with a tailwind. I'm thinking the higher electric motor RPM the Feb. 14 article talks about may be restricted to a much higher SoC at those speeds. What concerns me is nothing is being said about what the speed is when the engine will shutdown on deceleration. We know it's 40mph now when you are in "L", but this will be the first thing I'd want to know on my first drive. If the engine shutdown at a higher speed than 40mph, we will know EV speed will go higher than 40mph as the vehicle breaks-in.

In order to overcome the sensitive foot it takes to accelerate in EV mode, I take my right shoe off. I've been doing this for over a year now and I have full control accelerating in EV. The moment I leave my shoe on now, I lose that great control and feel of the accelerator pedal. The top hypermilers all drive with their shoe off, even with non-hybrid vehicles.

Re 2009 brakes - Drum or Disc on rear:

This 08 window sticker (MMH) specifically mentions 4 wheel disc brakes:
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=7...

This 09 window sticker (FEH) fails to identify the type of brakes:
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=7...

My conclusion: the 09 FEH/MMH will have rear drum brakes.

Hi There:

talking about features, After looking at some pictures of the interior of the '09, I noticed that there is a button kind of next to the 110 volt plug. Its between the insert and the 110 volt plug.

Does anyone know what this is?

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/25/in-the-autoblog-garage-2009-mercury-m...

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-mercury-mariner-hybrid-2/881258/
-paul

Re: the mystery button.

I can't say for sure, but I would guess that it is the "OFF" button for the vehicle stability control system.

It should be the off-on button for traction control. This is different from the electronic stability control feature.

When I read that article I thought it was a misprint and meant backup sensors. The FEH I ordered has the sensors as part of the Limited package. Would have loved a camera instead like the Prius can come with.

Hmm, I see the Lincoln MKS has the Syn system and rearview camera---from this link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=126727

The MKS comes standard with electronic stability control, HID headlamps, power-adjustable heated and cooled front seats, heated rear seats, leather upholstery and an eight-speaker audio system with Sync control.

The test car we drove added the all-wheel-drive system (a $1,870 increase in base price over the front-driver) and the grandly named Ultimate Package. As its name implies, it is the king of options packages, enveloping all the other packages into its ultimate-ness. With this $5,995 compendium you get (take a deep breath here): voice-activated navigation system, rearview camera, THX surround-sound audio system with a 10-gig hard drive, adaptive headlamps with automatic high-beams, rain-sensing wipers, front parking assist sensors, power rear-window sunshade, keyless ignition, dual-panel moonroof, 19-inch wheels and upgraded leather. The 20-inch wheels will cost you another $685 on top of the Ultimate Package price

This tells me if you push hard enough, you can get a rear veiw camera for your FEH.

"Might make your 2009 FEH more similar to the Pirus."

Thanks Billy for the info.

Since the '09 FEH Limited comes with the back-up sensor system, I most likely will pass on installing a camera. I'm sure I'll have my hands full learning all the tricks on the second generation navigational system. Also, my priority is 2 more SGII's, a full size Limited rim and tire for a spare, window tinting and a set of Helms '09 workshop manuals. My Verizon pocket PC/phone contract is up and I may need a new phone/pc that is ideal for the Voice/Nav and Sync system. This new hands free system is going to get a bit getting use too. I'm sure we will have a special thread here on this 10 Gig hard drive system.

Hi Paul

I have a full size matching spare on my '05 FEH and the '09 FEH can be ordered with a full size spare in fleet sales. The fleet spare is non-matching as most full size spares are.

I had a bad experience with my '05 FEH that had sidewall damage that took 2 weeks to order a new Eco-Plus tire from Ford. The Eco--Plus could only be ordered from Ford if you owned a FEH and had a VIN number back then.

After talking to the parts manager two weeks ago, he thinks the new Michelins will have the same conditions we ran into over three years ago. The manager has the Eco- Plus in stock now and most likely will stock the Michelin LRR tires as soon as he can.

I think this confirms what I thought about the '09 FEH/MMH having the new VVC to increase speed and efficiency as the '09 Fusion and Milan Hybrid.

"More capable. Ford Motor says the 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid on sale next month and Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids due in 2010 will be able to run on electric power alone up to 40 mph - 10 mph faster than current models. As now, when the battery runs down, the gas engine kicks in and recharges it."
http://www.mydesert.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080701/BUSINESS/807...

Thanks DD

I read the '09 owners manual last night and it looks like Ford still has a 40mph EV speed limit and they did keep the Aux battery A/C. Looks like Ford also warns against the hypermiler technique call FAS (turning the key off while moving). They also warn you that you will void your warranty if you do not run approved 5-20W oil. I recommend not using 0-20W Mobil 1 as some people have done here for a while now. Ford confirmed they have the ability to retrieve driving history before an accident or what caused damage to a system by the driver. Basically, Ford is Big Brother watching you when it comes to warranty or accidents now.

When I talk to the inventor of the SGII Ron Delong, he told me that a SGIII would only be developed if he added this feature to read the history like Ford now can monitor. It would be nice if we could read this data to confirm or deny anything Ford claims for warranty issues.

Hi Don

I guess my questions would be centered around the eCVT and gauges.

1. Why can't improvements be made in EV speeds like Toyota's TCH, THH and Lexus hybrids. The Prius is said to have an increase in speed to 62mph in 2010. It's not that the Toyota's can hold those speeds in EV, but they allow engine shutdown from those speeds.

2. Ford needs to get rid of these graphs on the Nav Sys and just give us digital readouts. We need a percent readout for battery SoC like the Scangauge can provide.

3. Why does the average MPG drop data before an entire average Tank is calculated. The Scangauge confirms the OEM gauge can't record as much as one entire Tank average. Honda has a lifetime average that would be nice to have on the FEH/MMH.

I would hope other member here could add to this list for Don to ask to the Engineers. Ford had a weekend meet with new owners back in '05 where a list of questions were answered for FEH owners. This would be a good time to take advantage of Don's interview. There is a thread on CleanMPG.com where notes were taken that is very helpful also. Here it is:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125

Congrads Tony

Once you get a VIN number you can track the status HERE:
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?showforum=80
by joining the Blue Oval Forum. Just post a new thread asking ViperPilot tracking status. I just requested mine for the first time today.

Also, I read if you join the American Quarter HQRSE Assoc. and are a member for 2 months (by the time you get your FEH), Ford gives members a $500 rebate on new purchases. The cost of a one year membership is $35. I joined when I ordered my '09 FEH over two months ago, so I should be able to get the Ford rebate. My Broker said Ford sales a lot of trucks to that ASSOC. and that's why they support it's members. Here is the link for more information about the FEH/MMH rebate.
http://www.aqha.com/

Good Luck and glad you got X Plan!

Don - My question is:

When will they make the a/c run off the electric motor?

(formery Tony D)

Thanks,

Tony

Unless you have a question to ViperPilot regarding a VIN number or something related, you should post general information in the Escape/Mariner Forum on Blue Oval. Here is the link:
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?s=bf9048ff29fa7f36838d678...

The ViperPilot Forum is used to Track vehicles and Plant information and ViperPilot is a Ford employee just giving us this service. That forum is for all Ford and Mercury customers, not a forum any certain vehicle.

Thanks

In the ViperPilot forum, VP is also providing a link with a picture of buyers Window Sticker. I've seen the MMH '09 sticker and the FEH sticker and the MMH sticker confirms front disc and rear drum brakes. The FEH sticker I saw made no mention of the type of brake, but it most likely is rear drum also.

Folks that want to visit and take a look, you may have to join the Blue Oval Forum to access the link to the window stickers of the '09 FEH/MMH. Here is the link to the ViperPilot Blue Oval forum to take a look:
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?showforum=80

See if you can open this window sticker:
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=7...

Don -
I have another question.

Is it going to be possible to connect a rear entertainment system to the new Nav system stereo (example: headrest monitors) so they can be played through the cars speakers?

Thanks,

Do the '09 FEH/MMH's have something similar to homelink, basically a built-in garage door opener? I have not seen it mentioned in any of the features or specs.

The www.fordaccessoriesstore.com site has Homelink rear-view mirrors as an option for the "standard" Escape, but it isn't listed for the Hybrid. I'm guessing it's an oversight... as I recall, the keypad entry thing-a-muh-jigs weren't listed for the FEH either, but they worked fine. Ask your dealer if they'd like to make some more money by installing Homelink.

In looking through the 2008 and also the 2009 owners manuals (found at http://www.motorcraftservice.com) It appears that the 2009 no longer has a HV charge assist button located under the left side dash reveal whereas all previous years do..

In all previous years (2008 & earlier) there was a possibility than a failure to crank issue could be the LV battery (12v).... And a cranks but does not ignite could be the HV battery (330V). As such, The 2oo8 and previous years owners manuals contained 2 discreet jump starting procedures (LV & HV) -- and the 2009 owners manual only has a LV procedure.

So my question is this: (or these)
1. does this still exist? (simply missing from the 2009 manual)

2. or does a dead HV battery no longer prevent starting on the 2009's?

3. and in general, why does a low HV battery prevent starting on the older units? Is not the ICE ignition and controll electronics 12v? If it will crank, why does it not get fuel or spark as well?

4. In general this whole arrangement of two Jumping procedures and possibly having to use a combination of both - would be just a wee bit confusing for the average driver. Ie: connect jumpers, try to start, if engine cranks but does not start pop off dash cover, push button, watch little flashing lights for 8 min, try to start, repeat....YECH!

Congrats!!!! I can't even get my VIN!!! How long should that take? A month or so?
Gary since I orderd what you have I would love to see the pictures. I'm going to have to bug you until around January!!! :) I hope sooner, but if I get it before the end of the year I'll be ok!! Keep all of us waiting updated. Hopefully you can figure out all the trick so when we get ours we can enjoy it right away w/o going through the learning curve. (How's that for an optomistic spin on things) Enjoy!!! (Lucky)

Most of the claims by Ford said their new Michelins have improved stopping distances, improve handling, are much quieter and are LRR for better mileage. Today I increased the tire PSI to 50 and they road much better than the Eco Plus at 35psi, you can't hear them, and I'm getting excellent mileage.

Today on my 40 mile commute from a cold start I averaged 49.4mpg with E-10 and hot weather. I was holding 40mph in EV more than a few times today and this FEH had less than 20 miles on it. This thing has fuel cut when you let off the gas in "D" also. I need to stop shifting to "N" when the engine is running to get better FE now. When I figure out all the changes I need to make, this FEH will rock!

Not sure yet, but I think my Nav sys only is a one disc system. To much to learn for this old man, but I know SoC on my SGII is working fine. I was dropping the SoC to 39.3 at 35mph in EV before a restart of the ICE. I found out why I was getting restarts for what I thought was for no reason. The Nav SoC gauge had 4 bars when this was happening and I found out with my SGII this is 40%. So each bar is 10% on the new Nav SoC gauge.

Sorry folks, but my priority is to learn how to adjust to all these changes in the '09 to keep my lifetime mileage up the best I can. I'll get some pictures posted asap, but many of you have seen pictures and want the meat of the mileage. I still have to see what I can push this thing to on the highway. ALL THIS BEFORE BREAK-IN!

I LOVE THIS FEH!

In 2nd Generation Navigation system in the '09s, the navigation system works off the hard drive - it does not work off of a DVD.

Even though the '09 FEH doesn't need to be shifted to "L", I found that even if the engine started in "L", decel causes Fuel Cut which means it's as good as EV at 9,999mpg and open-loop. WOW folks, if you want to play with the shifter and monitor a SGII, you can learn to get even higher mileage in the '09 FEH/MMH.

The '09 FEH/MMH is a major breakthrough for Ford in EV speed and fuel cut. The instant EV with decel should have boosted the 34mpg city EPA rating, but who cares about what the Gov. thinks?

Hi Mdensch

The 2.5L does not feel like my 2.3L at all. My 2.3L has the feeling of a slipping clutch with run away RPM's during even slow acceleration. The 2.5L has much more power and feels more like the standard gas engine under slow acceleration. If you can control RPM's accelerating, the 2.3L gets great mileage. It's much easier controlling RPM's with the new 2.5L because of the big increase in torque. On top of that, I can see an improvement in FE with the instant SGII MPG readings during heavy charging of the battery and accelerating. It's hard to say if the power increase is just from the engine because the new converter was also going to boost assist. The A/C has an effect that increases RPM's in the 2.5L at highway speeds more than I would have thought, but not as much as the 2.3L.

As far as retrofitting '09 improvements, I may add the rear tire spoilers and I'm already going to change my Eco Plus tires to the new Latitude Tour Michelins on my '05 FEH. Fuel Cut may be something that could be done, but I don't think Ford would make it possible on its own. Down the road, a Lithium plug-in upgrade could be more affordable if gas prices continue to rise. This could boost EV power in older models and assist the engine much better to increase MPG. I seen an example of this during a battery recon at 60mph with the CC on. After the battery peaked at 82% SoC, the battery started a rapid discharge and assisted my engine to the point of ~90mpg at 60mph. This made me understand the eCVT can be programmed to increase MPG at higher speeds above 40mph if it had the extra battery supply.

It's clear that a big boost in EV power has been made in the '09. The HV battery is the same that was in earlier models and includes the Aux A/C. I can set the CC at 40mph even in a small headwind which was out of the question in my '05. A more powerful HV battery is the solution IMO to increase power and FE in the '08 and prior FEH's. Ford has not solve the 40mph EV limit in the present '09 FEH/MMH eCVT. The older converter's conversion losses IMO prevented a stronger 40mph EV speed. The computer in prior and the '09 FEH/MMH prevents a higher than 40mph EV speed. The '09 now has the capability to go higher than 40mph IMO now with the new converter, but is restricted by the computer now.

Hey 2009 (and 08) owners... Take a quick look at your roof rack and let me know if I am missing parts.

I was out taking off the cross bars (less wind drag I hope). Once I was done, I noticed (on the fixed rails remaining on the car) that only the front mount on each side- (there are 3 mounts on each rail where it is bolted to the roof) -has a inside reveal cover... basically its a pop-in plastic panel that completely covers up the recessed area where the attachment bolts are. The center one and rear one on each side are open.

I am not a fluid engineer but it would seem to me that these open areas would contribute to drag - and when compared to the front mounts which have the "pop-ins" these look decidely naked, like they are missing something...

Just thinking again - I know, I should stop.

I should have done a search prior to asking about the torque curve. I found one here: http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/508/FEH-MMH_Torque_Curve.jpg
this is for the older FEH vehicles. It would be great to see what differences the 2009 model produces.

Sorry to be slightly off topic. SOC means??? what? I'm a newbie and still learning the lingo. I'll guess state of charge for the battery? are these written in a faq anywhere? I'll assume that this is information you can get in the nav / car display? or is that a scan guage only thing?
thx

Well thanks a lot, Gary. Now ya got me wishing I had waited and bought an '09 instead of my '08 FEH.

harumph

(LOL)

Quick thought on going EV and maintaining EV at 39 MPH in the 2009 FEH ... At 6500 feet the air Density is about ~20% less dense than it is at sea level and although my 09 FEH's ICE looses a lot of efficiency - I would think that some of those combustion engine losses might be made up by the fact than there is less air pressure. = Less air resistance. And when in EV the motor does not care about oxygen content etc. I travel a lot and rent cars in lots of cities and I can feel the difference between here and there when I put my hand out the window on the highway. I know humidity and specific density due to air pressure systems also comes into play....

I know that a ball off of a bat hit at Coors field has about ~40 extra feet. ( We love that home field advantage) - Might have helped Elway as well ( GRIN ) -All things being equal
A ball hit at sea level that moves 400 feet would move somewhere in the range of 760 feet in a vacuum and would travel 441 feet in Denver, and 449 feet at 6500 feet of altitude.

I wonder if that is why it is so easy for my FEH to stay EV at 39 even in a head wind or up a hill up here. would be interesting to compute this out to see if there is any real difference.

Just thinking again ( I know I should stop) hrmm, a 09 FEH on the moon running in EV - how far would it go?

Cheers Cougar.

Gary,

I have not yet taken it in for the malfunctioning AC controls - I did mention it to the "delivery quality" agent at the dealership - and I cold tell he thought I was a little bonkers... I dont have the long term relationship built that you have yet. I was waiting to see if anyone else chimed in on the problem - or, if you got a valid response from your service drive guys that I could leverege locally here.. also once your team has logged it with the hot line then my report will be taken more seriously. I am hoping to head in soon when I can get a break from work.

Update...

The '09 FEH/MMH will go instant EV with a shift to Neutral at 40mph and below with a SoC of 41.9% or higher. Shifting to neutral above 40mph prevents Fuel-Cut (DFCO) when decelerating, so there is no benefit there.

My second tank MPG average is looking like a little over 49mpg and close to 700 miles. Considering we had ~4 days of high winds and heavy rain with Tropical Storm Fay, this is excellent for this time of year in So. FL on E-10 gas.

Based on my present tank miles on the trip OD of 604 miles, a MTE of 71 miles, and knowing I have 1.3 gallons of fuel left at 0 MTE, I will burn 15 gallons at 735 miles. My SGII Tank reading says I burned 12.2 gallons so far and have 132 miles TTE. My SGII Tank Size is set at 15 gallons. Based on the present Tank miles and the MTE projection, I'm getting a little over 49mpg. The Nav Sys says my average is 46.5mpg. This confirms my earlier difference between the SGII and the Nav Sys MPG averages. It is still my opinion that the OEM gauges don't recognize Fuel-Cut (DFSO) and will always read lower MPG averages. Since the new Nav Sys can be reprogrammed, Ford should have a recall and update the system for DFSO.

Evlar, there is no tank level in my Nav Sys either, I use a combination of all the gauges to determine the amount of gas used and the amount of gas still in the tank.

You need a SGII to compare distance, time and mileage per gallon to the distance and miles per gallon of the OEM gauges. The factory OEM gauges can tell you a lot of information if you know how to read them properly. For instance, when you reset the Trip OD after a fill-up, the distance you travel before the gas gauge starts to move determines how much gas you over-filled or under-filled your tank. There is a vapor space that can be partly filled if the vehicle is sitting on a slope with the right front of the vehicle is lower than the left rear of the vehicle. I've driven over 100 miles before the gas gauge starts to move from the full position because of over-fills into the vapor space. If the gas gauge starts to move off full in say 10 miles, then chances are you had less than 15 gallons (the stated size of the tank) of gas from fill-up. I've found you can put 14 to 17 gallons of gas in the FEH Gas Tank. Also, we know the amount of gallons we add to the tank from the fuel pump reading at fill-up. Based on the Miles To Empty, we can calculate the gas left in the tank and compare that to the SGII mileage to empty, gas burned, and the gallons left according to a 15 gallons tank setting on the SGII.

The reason I know how much gas is in the tank at 0 Miles To Empty is because I based it first after seeing how far I could go past 0 MTE before running out of gas. I went 58 miles and averaged ~43mpg three years ago when I ran out of gas. Since that time, the SGII and the MTE have confirmed the 1.3 gallons by calculating many times during that 3 years. Sometimes I go 40 to 50 miles past 0 MTE to fill-up at a gas station I use. Those of you that drive with a lead foot and get ~25mpg on average, need to adjust how far they can go past 0 MTE based on 1.3 gallons. The good news is the FEH will run in EV a short distance after you run out of gas if you don't turn the key off.