'09 FEH/MMH Econ Mode

hey Gary ...

Additional testing and I could never get an ICE shut off in Econ with AC on - even as I was playing around with the temp knobs and split climate control etc..... so I dont think it is linked to the cabin temp -Even though that makes a lot of sense.

IT IS REALLY HOT here now 95++ so I am wondering if it may have something to due with ambient temps --- EX: if its a 100 degrees out, most users are going to reach right down and click off Econ the min the ICE (and AC) turns off as the car is going to heat very very fast - so possibly Ford picked an ambient temp that holds the ICE on to limit this fighting with the dashboard buttons and swearing at the car... I dunno, just thinking.

I will try to test this some evening here when we have a 70 ish degree night and the sun is not cooking the Black Pearl.

Others Please chime in - as this "feature" is not working as advertised.

Gary,
Our '08 FEH has automatic climate control with the econ setting and it works great. When in econ mode the ICE cycles on and off as it normally would even if the target temperature has not been reached.

It sounds as if you have already concluded that there is a defect and I'll bet that it's a fairly simple problem with a switch or wiring.

(Now, there is a very remote chance that your ICE is staying on all the time because the AC compressor is running to keep the batteries cool in the summer heat. I'm assuming that crossed your mind and you've already ruled it out.)

I'm no fan of conspiracy theories, so I'm going to be a bit skeptical about the tampering scenario.

If this is, indeed, the reason for your problem, the employee would probably have to have performed the sabotage after the the vehicle was assembled, at or least after the HVAC system and all its controls were installed. Otherwise, he or she couldn't have known for sure which vehicle the parts would be installed in.

I would also wonder why he/she would choose this one element of the vehicle's operation to sabotage, except that it would be relatively easy to do which means that it should be relatively easy to fix.

What really drives my skepticism is that I can't imagine why a plant employee would get upset with you personally over your hypermiling techniques. I mean, I realize that there are a lot of sickos out there, but this just doesn't make sense unless there is more to the story.

There is also a distinct possibility that a small batch of defective switches made their way into some of the '09 Escapes. As Freud is said to have said: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Wow, Gary - that's intense.

[Tossing 2 more cents in . . . ]

My experience has been that no matter how hot it gets, with the A/C in ECON mode, the system cycles the ICE on and off according to its own parameters, not cabin comfort.

I sat in a drive through for 15 minutes the other night and the ICE kicked on and off about every minute or so. Right when you would start to get uncomfortable, it would kick on, cool some and then kick off. In my opinon, Econ with the A/C engaged allows the AC to have more deviation from the set temperature to the actual cabin temp.

If they didn't design it that way, then why can I be at a stop light in ECON mode with A/C and the ICE off, then drop the temperature on the A/C from say 76 to 72 and the ICE immediately kicks on? Mind, you this is a hot day mid afternoon (97-100 F outside). Or if I turn the A/C thermostat up to say 82 from 76, the ICE will stay off longer?

The only way you can keep the ICE off longer would probably be to turn off the A/C switch.

:shrugs: At the same time I could be completely wrong, but that's what it appears to me. Now, if Ford would have just run the A/C off the battery like my Camry Hybrid, this argument wouldn't exist. :)

Thanks for trying to help Eric, but I've tried setting the A/C temperature above outside temperature in the ECON mode and no luck going EV in the automatic and ECON setting. At one point, I was in EV at a stoplight and turn the A/C on, and a few seconds later I got a restart in the ECON mode with temperatures set high for heat. The battery level was more than good when this happen.

Mdensch, the battery system and the cabin A/C are separate, but yes the compressor can run for the battery and not for the cabin at the same time. When I go EV in my '05, the fans and the compressor stop.

Tiny update here... SOMETHING HAPPENED!

Directly following a 20 mile drive while moderatly hot outside (88 degrees) I pulled onto my Driveway and stopped at my mail box to get my mail.

- AC was on - lit up
- Econ mode was on - lit up ( I guess I was hoping it would work right)
- The AC and ECON had been on for the whole 30 min drive.
- I slowed down and entered my driveway from roughly 45 MPH previous speed.
- Climate controll was not split and was set to minimal 60 degrees manual mode face button, and fan was on lowest setting.
As I stopped (and only after I was fully stopped) and I reached out to get my Mail out of the box THE ICE SHUT OFF... I noticed immediatly and double checked my buttons - Yes the AC was lit and the ECON was lit. WOW!!

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME the ICE has ever shut off in ECON/AC mode !!! and it was a very brief incident lasting only 1 min while I got my mail - I never shifted out of drive, just held the brakes.

It stayed off the whole time i gathered my mail - Once I touched the gas pedal and started to roll away from the mailbox the ICE started up again .... Normally when I have the AC off, I can (and do) go EV getting my mail and all the way up my driveway to my house 3/4 of a mile - I just go slow there is a hill but no problem for EV at 25 mph. In this specific instance the ICE was on all the way to the house. Even once I came again to a final stop in my garage only several minutes later ( I touched nothing and changed no dash settings or buttons) the ICE never turned off again - I actually wasted fuel and sat there reading my mail for like 8 more min waiting to see if the ICE would shut off again. NOPE, DAMN!

toward the end of the 8 minutes I tried it in D and P, Brake on Brake off, adjusted the climate settings etc I even wiggled the buttons a bit to see if faulty and then finally flipped ECON off and on - Nothing happened (I wasnt going to mention it, but I even rolled down my window as I had at the mail box - then laughed at how stupid I was being) .... then I turned off the AC and the ICE stopped immediatly.

I have not been able to replicate this ICE off AC ECON situation again - and in general the ECON button does not do SQUAT - at least anything that is visible to me as I am without a scan guage.

It would be very good to get an official list of the parameters that have to be met for the AC ECON to function - surely there is a technical description of exactly: What it does, When it does it, & How it does it.

It is no fun having a button with a light that has no function. I am going to use my label maker and put "Ejection Seat" on it for fun - it will work as good at that, as it does anything else. or how about grease slick or Smoke screen.... Hrmmm -Frustrated

CHEERS COUGAR

Hi Evlar,

The A/C problem isn't doing me any favors, that's for sure. I only use the A/C when my wife is in the FEH or it's raining and I can't roll down the windows. I'm sure this stupid T Storm that's covered Florida has been more of a MPG problem for me than anything else lately.

That said, I had the worst conditions regarding heat, E-10 and A/C problems during this summer I've ever had. The T Storm was the last straw, but this new '09 FEH is built and working phenomenally. My first tank that was a low fill by the dealer that averaged 46.4mpg at 592.6 miles. So far, my MPG average this tank is 48.5mpg with just under 1,000 miles on my FEHL and 400 miles on the present tank.

GaryG

Hi Eman

The issue is with both Automatic and Manual.

My Service Adviser dropped the ball on researching a fix for the problem. Today she brought me back to the Hybrid Tech and he said he would call Ford and get back with me today. Nothing yet.

We finally received are '09 FEH last week. We were driving around in it last night and had the AC on using ECON and Auto and appears to be working properly. The ICE was shutting off routinely like it should when slowing down, stopping at lights and driving in parking lots. I drove the last mile to our house without the ICE kicking in once. The temp outside was about 90 degrees and we had the auto set to 77 for both driver and passenger sides.

Jim

Today the Hybrid Tech and I took a new '09 FEHL for a ride to see how the A/C would allow EV in the ECON mode. At first, the A/C acted like my FEHL and the engine would not shut off. After about ten minutes and no shutdown, I turned the temp setting to 78 degrees and sure enough like Eric said the FEH went EV in the ECON mode. It was 91 degrees outside and it didn't take long for the engine to start back up again.

The Tech pulled up the new '09 workshop manual on the Ford computer and it said that in March of '08 Ford changed to the cabin temperature monitoring system in the FEH/MMH. I'm not real happy with the '09 ECON mode if I have to turn the temperature up to 78 degrees to go EV.

Hey Sean,

I'm working on my second tank with 1262.9 miles, but having to set the A/C Temp so high for econ mode, I just run the A/C lower when others are with me. No shutdown yet because I set it at 70 - 71 degrees or no A/C at all.

I'm going to have the two front windows and the top of the windshield tinted next week. I skipped the windshield on my '05 FEH, but it's better to do all three at the same time because of cost. I use a place called Tint King who has been tinting my vehicles for years and warranties the Job as long as you own the car. After the windshield gets tinted, I'm going to try Rain-X Anti-fog on the remainder of the windshield below the tint for mornings and rainy days without the A/C.

Hi Sean

For those of us who owned or have driven earlier FEH/MMH models, we know the '09 is a world apart. Articles written back in December after the DC Auto Show caught my eye, and then the February 14th article about changes to the '09 FEH/MMH and Fusion/Milon convinced me to order one as soon as possible.

Now that I've had a chance to evaluate the '09 FEH/MMH, I feel very good about telling people to hold off buying the '08 and waiting for the '09. My biggest fear now is someone stealing or wrecking my '09 and not being able to replace it. When word gets out and people realize there is a safe luxury SUV that can get this kind of mileage, look out!

Glad you are as happy as I am Sean!

Just over 700 miles now and we are getting ice shutoff at every stop regardless of outside OR inside temp settings!?!
While stopped in EV, I even turned the temp down to 70 and no start up..

I also noticed that my battery has been satying between 1/2 and 1/4 charge 90% of the time.

Keep in mind that I do not manipulate ev or ice in any way.. we just drive the feh easy and ALMOST ALWAY set the cruise.

The feh goes ev while in cruise control at 40 and cycles as needed.

Avg. mpg 41 all rural, speed limits 35, 40 and 45mph.

I definitely don't have this problem with my '09 FEHL AWD. I still think you have a major bug Gary, I'm surprised you're getting as good MPG as you're getting with no Econ shutoff.