No thanks are in order, it was my pleasure.

On the Hybridcars.com and others forums, I find there are a great many people who are pre-dispositioned, close-mindedly opinionated. They must all work for political action groups or something, because they all feel that if they shout the loudest they get to be right. Strange conversational angle if you ask me. When there’s a right and a wrong answer, emotions don’t factor into it.

Back on topic, sorry to be hard on the Prius.
It is certainly adequate for light-to-light driving, which is what it is designed for. There’s no need to outrun the herd at every light. And it proves nothing.

One thing about the 1-series is it comes in a 5-door hatch over the Pond. So it really has utility to go along with that performance. Expensive, yes.

The biggest obstacle is our supply chain management. Jim mentioned heating oil efficiency. That’s not a bad idea. Many people burn too many gallons in their furnaces. Gasoline doesn’t have that type of competition.

The second challenge is refining distribution. When they close down a refinery for maintenance, they have the ability to re-open as diesel refining. We somehow need to convince the refiners and distributors that we want the supply so they’d better plan for it.

http://bmw120d.com/

In Europe, BMW has a 1-series 4-door hatchback diesel which gets 45mpg US. Or a 1-series coupe which gets 50mpg US.

They are the second diesel manufacturer to develop an all-aluminum lightweight block. And there is no doubt in my mind that a 1-series hatchback diesel would handle and accelerate far better than a Prius.

So as to the claim that diesels are not useful in small cars… rubbish.

Still no,

Getting the correct air/fuel ratio (if that is what you mean by mixture) is helpful for higher efficiency in a diesel, but they have a higher tolerance for a range of mixtures. A gasoline engine’s peak efficiency is around 12:1 to 17:1 AFR. Thats not changing anytime soon. Just the limitations of gasoline. Run too much leaner than 20:1 and you have pre-detonation. Very bad for the heads.

Diesels are capable of operating from 20:1 to 100:1 AFR. Run too rich, you lubricate the cylinder. In the future, it is important to strive for higher AFRs. There is no ‘correct’ AFR like there is in a gasoline engine. And the number is a moving target.

I’m still not sure what you’re going on about with the OPEL example. You were wrong 2x in the same post. First on mileage, then on CO2. Lets break it down so you understand.

OPEL (gCO2/km)
Gas Diesel
169 138
172 152
197 194
228 152
230 194

Uhhh… even taking the low gasoline figures and the high diesel figures… the diesels are averaging significantly lower in CO2 emissions.

Do not use cost as a measure of complexity. Diesels are primarily more expensive because of the manufacture of a very strong block. Also, they hold value longer because they have much greater average longevity (due in part to their simplicity and strength), and you pay for it at purchase time.

There are already US-spec clean diesels on the road getting 30% better mileage than gas counterparts. Adding the extra filter raises the price, but it does not hurt efficiency noticeably.

Prius acceleration sucks.

This is not simple:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Hybridcombined.png/400px-Hybridcombined.png

Hybrid drivetrains add extra units to a relatively simple conventional driveline. They are pretty much 2x as complex.

I’ve seen plenty of people bat 0.000 and defend it before. Many pretend to know about cars, and I find it entertaining when they try. Keep going, this is better than a sitcom.

You state: “you were wrong about mixtures, Prius acceleration, the 5-10% advantage, complexity, and the OPEL example”

Sorry BigMcLarge – I am correct:

Getting the correct air/Diesel mixtures really is a an issue in Diesel. Really.
Guess why a Diesel engine costs more than a gasonline engine. That is for the additional complexity – not just for fun. Since they sell as many gasonline as Diesel engines in Europe the addional margin is not just because of fewer mass production. Go to the resective web site and check out prices – please.

The “Opel” example – by all means – is correct. Again, what matters is not the mpg – what matters is the production of CO2. It is simply not correct to go by mpg when at the end of the day the CO2 matters. Oh yes, and please add the addional consumption that the clean Diesel needs. There really is no advantage left – at least at the current state-of-the-art.

The Prius acceleration: Indeed is really good – Diesel might be better. Here you might be correct.

The statement, that an electric or hybrid car is comlex is simply nonsense. So far they are based on reasonably known electric machines with very few moving parts. They will get much better and complexer in the future – sure. Also, they have some complexity in the electronics and software. And indeed, momentarily Hybrids are more expensive – but that is largely due to the prices of batteries not for complexity.

To combine the Diesel and Hybrid into one might indeed be the best solution. Well, let’s hope we can pay for it. And, yes, a Diesel engine needs the correct engine temperature to work best – so it is not clear to me if one can switch off the engine and drive electrically every now and again with a Diesel without too much Diesel dust.

I guess, I have to stop the discussion now. Since there are other duties waiting for me. Was fun though talking with you.