Lusting for Europe's Illegal 60-MPG Cars

Hmm, maybe our diesel polution standards are a bit too high.
I'd love to commute to work in that Fiesta ECOnetic.

All these cars look great and they are good too compared to our Tahoe's, Expedition's, Sequioa's and Armada's. We better lower Diesel emission standards and bring them in.

But Diesel is $1/gallon more here and can anyone explain why Diesel is expensive.
I know that Diesel in Europe is subsidized. So what is the actual cost of Diesel.
Is it really expensive to make Diesel.

Okay, for those who want a detailed answer about what the consideration for bringing European cars to the US, here goes:

Federalizing a vehicle for US sale is relatively easy if it's designed from the onset to be sold here, but taking an existing model and getting it ready for US sale is fairly complex; I believe the Ford folks itemized something like 60 significant changes that needed to be made (to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars) just to get them ready for here. In addition to emissions issues, there are safety ones since (which may or may not be significant to any real safety concerns, much like the emissions differences) the testing process is different. There are also a bunch of idiosyncratic differences; stuff that the auto industry has been trying to make common for years--to no avail. Then there's also the Japanese market, which has its own standards, which have kept imports to a minimum for decades. In most of the rest of the world, China, India, etc., the standards aren't what keep imports out--it's price, usually fed by import tariffs to product home grown industries.

Regarding the specific models in this article:
Fiesta--I think it was designed to meet US specs except for the diesel engine. They could probably drop the current Focus engine in it and bring it over, which I think are in Ford's plans.
Seat--Not designed for US export so it would need a total overhaul to be brought here.
Polo--VW has talked about bringing the Polo over, but has balked because of concerns about the US commitment to small, high-efficiency cars. That tells me the car is probably very close to US spec, although the engine would probably take some work to get ready for export.
Mini--a different case since the car is US spec. The engine is all that would be needed to be certified. Since it's (I believe) a Peugeot engine, that could be more complicated since PSA doesn't export any of its products to the US.

Two philosophies are out there among the auto companies--only bring vehicles over that can be sold in all 50 states, or try to sell in the 45 non-CA emissions states (about 75 percent of the market). BMW is leading the charge of the former, which would mean the Mini wouldn't come over until it met CA emissions. I think the trend now is to aim for the tougher emissions since the CA and NY markets represent such a key target for imported cars. All US emissions laws are tougher than EU5 emissions although at EU6 (I think that kicks in after 2010-11) they start to equalize -- unless CA goes to LEV III (SULEV as baseline for all cars).

The marketing question is also quite significant. As you could see from Daimler's several year hesitation about bringing over the Smart (remember it was in Canada and Mexico for at least two years before it made it here), the automaker's consideration of whether the market is truly interested in a particular vehicle or segment plays into the decisions. Along with that are market size considerations, etc. The decisions are ones involving significant financial risk, which is why the automakers deliberate so much, then they're complicated because of the technical work involved, so typically it is a couple years before a model can migrate over, even assuming it was designed to meet US market specs. One benchmark is the Japanese, who always introduce their new international models in their home market first, then roll out to the US and EU. That gives them more time to tailor them to the overseas markets based on early reviews at home.

I hope this helps. HybridCars.com tries to make our articles accessible, which usually means leaving a lot of these details out. Thanks.

I can not share the excitement about the Diesel cars. Firstly, these are all mini-sized cars - the way you have not seen in the US. If the Prius would be built that small it would outperform all of them. Second, the CO2 emission of Diesel is 13.5% higher than with normal gas. Why is this not said thoroughout all the article. Thirdly, keep in mind, that the above Diesel cars still give out cancerogenous particles. Why would anybody be keen on this. Have you ever been on an intersection in Europe? Have you ever been breathing the air we have? Have you the same 60000 people that annualy day from the smallest particle dirt in part issued by Diesel?
Be a little bit more proud of your government. It did the right thing.

So did these guys make the all to often mistake of forgetting that Imperial gallons are not the same as US Gallons?

1 Imperial Gallon = 1.2009 US Gallons

Therefore 65 UK mpg Ford Fiesta is the same as 54 US mpg not 65 mpg--still really good, but common people, how often do we need to be reminded of simple UK to US gallon conversions?

It's starting to become a pet peeve of mine, does anyone else in the world realize that UK gallons are not the same as US gallons?

Here is the thing imperial or standard US .... it does nto matter there is not reason to push manufacturers to bring those cars here. Why?? Our gas tax is tiny compared to Europe. Start taxing @ $0.50 a gallon and raise it to $1.00 in 2 years.....

We should force Ford to make those $100's of thousands of dollars of changes - why? We are pumping $15 BILLION into the auto industry - if they are given garbage requirements - then we will continue to get garbage cars and vaporware....

It isn't harder to make diesel. The reason for the high pricing is the same reason our gas prices were so high only a month ago. The so-called "supply-and-demand" for diesel isn't there, therefore our diesel isn't subsidized like Europe's diesel is. As for the differences between US and European standards for cars it reaches into things as pathetic as the spare tire size and the mechanical make-up of the catalytic converters.

Do American manufacturers, domestic or transplant, even want to bring this technology here? I have doubts, based on their lack of effort with EPA and lack of effort to lobby big oil about diesel supply here versus gasoline. Why would they not want to have these products here?

Our available fleet struggles to top low thirties mpg for typical affordable daily family cars, while Europe doubles the number. What is wrong with this picture? Why would we prefer exotic and expensive hybrid technology over proven, cheaper, and probably more durable diesel technology? Maybe someone can make a stab at explaining us to me.....

I would love to buy a diesel to use instead of my pickup for daily use. I highly doubt that the dirtiest of these vehicles puts out nearly the same amount of pollution as my truck getting 14mpg. And the next person to complain about them being noisy or smelly, should go to a VW dealer and test a TDI. I'm hesitant to buy one (and there's about a 4 month wait for the sportwagen I want), but my only other choice is.. well actually there isn't another choice.

FYI Diesel is NOT subsidised in Europe. It's taxed at an extremely high rate, just like regular petrol/gasoline is - a litre of Diesel in the UK is about 1.10 GBP currently ($2) - very roughly, $8 / US Gallon. I believe you guys pay around half of that?

Diesel is taxed at a slightly higher rate than petrol in the UK, as the MPG rating is higher (it's a leveller to make diesel and petrol about the same price). As far as I'm aware the cost of producing diesel is exactly the same as making petrol (both use fractional distillation)

Believe Me, I have done a ton of research on this subject, (NOX, NOH3, etc) diesel cars are far cleaner,safer more efficient than gasoline vehicles (beside the fact that diesel contains no benzine or toluol) it boils down to "strange bedfellows" in Congress.
US Congressman Joe Barton wrote the Energy Policy
in 2005 that drove all the European Diesels off shore (just one of a long line of oil controlled
policies). Barton (a Texas Republican known as "Smokey Joe") has been under the wing of big oil for years, his staff are all from Atlantic Richfield Oil .....

In the US people complain about 3 dollar per US gallon gas.

In most of Europe the cost per US gallon is above 10 US dollars - makes people very interested in consumption. Diesel is slightly less in most cases - maybe 5 to 10%

I love the comments by people who suggest the emissions standards are too tight in the US - they are only getting more strict so get used to it.

Europe is the place they love to talk about the world environment (since they screwed up theirs so well) but the Euro governmental actions are kind of on the iffy side.

Max,

Diesel isn't subsidised in Europe, not least here in the UK where it was (until recently) more expensive than standard unleaded petrol/gas.

Diesel is currently £1.09 a litre at my local service station and standard unleaded is the same price. An annual car tax (called 'road fund licence', commonly known as a 'tax disc', displayed in your windscreen/windshield), here in the UK is based on (for newer cars) their CO2 emissons.

Cars such as the Toyota Pruis pay nothing, but large 4 wheel drives pay £415 a year (roughly US$ 600 a year) for their licence.

Europeans have always tended to buy small cars as 80% of the price of fuel is tax and as i've mentioned the annual payment is lower if your vehicle is fuel-efficient.

The 2nd hand value of those big 4X4's plummeted as the oil price shoots up. The only thing to be said about diesel 4X4 versions is they may allow them to get into the low teens as far as mpg goes.They are still too big and too thirsty.

They are used as posing tools in fashionable locations by the more pretentious and 'fashionable' drivers, or should I say 'fashion victims'.

You see one person driving around a narrow city street with a 'car' that weighs 2.5 tons: so big they cannot reverse into a parking space that a more odest car would easily fit into.

I don't feel any sympathy for them: they bought something completely impractical.

Hi
Just thought I'd give my 2 cents. Diesel has lower Co2 levels good for environment but higher NoX bad for people then petrol cars. Personally I much prefer them great levels of torque and power with good mpg. Emission laws are very odd. European emissions laws for motorbikes mean that companies replacing carburetor bikes for fuel injected bikes are seeing about a 20% drop in fuel efficiency, How this is of real environmental benefit is beyond me. I think pollution per mile is a good Idea. Because the environmental cost of producing these hybrids is much greater then that of standard petrol or diesel cars.

Because the Hummer gas engine meets EPA requirements and the other cars diesel engines don't. The US diesel requirements are about 600% more stringent than Europe's new clean diesel standards. If you want current technology high mpg diesel cars in the US then don't support the government over regulation which has prevented all Americans from enjoying economical high mileage cars.

I agree with Hans, I think we should be happy with what the American government has decided to do with our cars. We should feel free to drive bigger cars because we have earned it.

The only thing I do not agree with is the fact that the US government has not put much money into the funding or Hydrogen-fuel cars, these engines are still in the running and aren't far from making it, why aren't we focused on these? They hardly have emission problems to fight over and can be made bigger with no problem.

In my opinion the US can take 2 different routes to less emissions in the US and better MPG (different for electric and hydrogen) but overall if US government puts money into either hydrogen fuel or electric/hybrids we can go down that road and stop with the gasoline use all together. OR a mixture of both Hydrogen/Electric. We need to re-shape our country if any of these 2 things can happen with outlets for electric cars and gas stations turned into hydrogen stations. The plus of hydrogen only being it can run bigger cars/trucks/buses which are needed still for US life. If this is done emission problems will be done and gasoline will be no longer needed. For a better cleaner America and World.

James p
hahahahaha happy with the US gov (which is just a puppet admin for the Globalists). And you've earned it by driving a big POS.
Hybrids are shite. Face it they still use an outdated spark ignition engine as well as cumbersome batteries.
Mate if you want hydrogen go to Iceland

I agree diesels arent good

One simple answer, We have retards in Government.

It's my guess that the auto industry has something going on with the fuel producers in the US. Keep the mileage to a minimum and profits at a maximum.

Try to move toward petrol cars and avoid noisy pollutant cars like..................... i think every on can guess

Actually diesel is cheaper to produce than gasoline and actually if the engine we have were made to combust more completely, diesel engines would give off less emissions too. Our government puts a high tax on diesel, which in my opinion is only a ruse to get more money in their pockets, which in turn makes it look like diesel is a bad option. I wonder how far the People of America will let this lie run?

We in the US will NEVER see anything like these great cars over here because our government has both hands in the OIL cookie pot!

off topic slightly, but if mileage were the only issue, it would be as easy or easier to modify even smaller vehicles with a wider selection of gears in the transmission, like on many or the larger suvs and trucks that have 6 or 7 forward gears and if they happen to be rear wheel drive, how about the 2 speed rear ends (or more than 2)

I buy used crap to get to work.
If i could get 60+ Mpg in a new Ford I would be buying one.

I use to have a 1981 diesel VW Rabbit.
I pine for those days i could get 60 mpg.
Oh diesel then was 1.03 per us gallon
About 10 dollars to fill once or twice a MONTH
hehehe

The bad was
noisy
ugly
smelly
no frills
0 to 60 in Hahaha

Probably a lot has changed 30 years later :-)