Dust in the Wind: Hybrids' Total Energy Cost

The big point here is that the R&D cost for a Hummer is hidden in vehicles that have been built over the past 50 years, where the hybrids have only been developed in the last 5-8 years.

Also, $ cost does not equal energy used to produce it. Think about the materials costs... material costs are not only energy to make and transport, but also the raw material "value" such as exotic metals (like nickel or lithium for batteries), carbon fiber, etc. If you build a car with carbon fiber frame and body, it'll cost a million dollars, but use similar or less energy to make than steel. Batteries are expensive because material costs are high, not because they take as much energy to make as the car uses during its life (not even close).

The lack of critical thinking skills among the masses will be the end of us all.

Wow! My energy, enviromental saving Prius is of less global benefit than a Hummer!
This took you two years to put together? This is your contribution to earth and human health? You all probably have closets full of firearms because it's your right! A new low has been created and it's creater is CNW Marketing Research. What a JOKE!

But wait!!! lets factor in the earnings of the company that made the Pruis vs the company that made the hummer- oh that company doesn make mooney--
Hmmm where is my depreciating asset column. We will have to factor lost pensions, wages homes, goodwill

The report is absurd

Everything i read talks about the 'energy cost' per mile driven. cost doesn't mean anything with how green it is. green is (or should by) an overall measure of impact to the environment. being green is more indeed more expensive. i'd like to find some research on the total 'environmental' impact per lifetime mile, not 'energy cost' per lifetime mile. haven't done all research yet, but i do know one thing. energy cost DOES NOT equal environmental cost/impact. we're all being brainwashed and misled.

and this whole fuel cell thing. fuel cells use hydrogen. manufacturing hydrogen takes a massive amount of energy. they're just offsetting the tail-piple emissions with energy plant emissions which lots of them use coal and turbine engines which uses.........oil products. go figure.

also, don't go slamming gun rights folks. this is not the forum for that subject. but i cherish my right to protect myself in a society in which the criminals will always have a means to harm innocent people.

Vehicle lifespan. For some reason, the article points to a projected 100K lifespan for a Prius, while the H3 is lifespan is projected at 3x that. To date, battery performance in the Prius has been extremely sound. Specifically, two Vancouver taxi companies have been running the 2001 Prius and have gotten total mileages of over 332,000 km (206,000 miles) and 410,000 (254,762) with minimal required repairs. http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Toyota_Prius.htm.

Mining Link: The environmental damage related to the Sudbury mine in Canada existed prior to the Prius. Directly linking the vehicle (and batteries) to the pollution is a shaky argument at best. From what I can gather, Toyota purchases ~ 1,000 tons of nickel from the mine annually, which is 1% of the mines annual output of 100,000.

Consider the Source: The original article was written by a student reporter for his college newspaper (Central Connecticut State University). Also worth noting is the fact that CNW does a considerable amount of work for the US auto industry.

Improvements in battery technologies are essential to the growing efficiencies of hybrids and future Plug In Hybrids. AAA expects that work being done with Lithium Ion batteries will further reduce the impact of NiMH battery types.

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Hi. My two cents is that Japanese cars are assembled here to get around the trade limitations. I memory serves me right this occured during the 80s under Reagan, when Japanese bashing was all the rage. Direct imports were capped, while leaving open the loophole to provide American workers with jobs by importing the parts and putting the additional cars together here.

Statistics can be manipulated and that's a fact.

I own a Prius because I like being able to drive 500+ miles between fill ups. I like saving gas and I like the car's versatility and reliability.

I also own firearms and believe the Second Amendment to be an individual right, just like the rest of the Bill Of Rights. On that note I am appalled at envorinmental extremist's vandalism and violent activity. If someone wants to own a hummer or any other gas guzzler, let 'em. It's their money and they'll eventually get tired of spending it in buckets.

This was a study designed to make any new technology look bad.

New tech gets assigned 100% of their R&D costs.

Old tech gets assigned a fraction of their R&D costs.

Therefore all old tech is more efficient than all new tech!!!

Time to tear down the research labs, I guess. It's those nerds in lab coats that cause global warming.

(This would explain Detroit's current strategy.)

Has anyone done the research to know the real difference in terms of overall impact on the environment. Seems like the real equation should look at the emission level per mile drive, anticipated miles to be driven, and environmental consequence of fabrication and assembly along with trashing/recycling the components. And forget the stupid Hummer, but is a high mileage super low emission regular engine better long term than a hybrid. I wonder but do not know. And what is the long term impact of obtaining the materials and making the batteries which have to be trasked or recycled? Does anybody know of any realtistic studies on the real environmental consequences of hybrids versus the more sensible alternatives?

The reason why the Japanese automakers make their cars here is because it is CHEAPER than making it in Japan and importing them. But since you asked, you can thank the Japanese engineering teams that design their cars in such a way so that the dumbshit American workers putting them together don't screw things up too much. But sadly since they have been built here, it seems their quality is slipping...go figure.

Lord knows the Japanese have ALOT of vices themselves...their post war culture is a copy of American Quaker and right wing lunacy...read Japan's Zombie Politics to get an idea. But that's not a topic of the thread is it?

Just face it DES...Americans make POS cars...so much so that MOST of the new American cars coming out by Ford, GM, etc....have to be REMAKES of older cars...retro garbage. How sad is that?

Get a life.

Great to find a site that indicates some people in the USA have heard of countries beyond your border!

What would be more interesting than a Hummer v Prius comparison would be a Prius v similar size car - say a European diesel with a highly efficient engine. Then the 'dust to dust' calculations might be more relevant. I suspect on a dust to dust basis a Prius might not be better than say a VW Golf diesel.

The dust to dust comparison is an important one as we often export the manufacturing pollution to somewhere else in the world. I guess the good thing about the Hummer is that the pollution caused by building and scrapping it is kept at home.

I think global warming is a myth.
And there is no such thing.
I aslo do belive in solar powered cars.
I think they are good to help our enviroment.
But i think that you guys over exadorate about littel things.
And you guys make them into big huge deals.
WHEN THERE NOT So SHUT UP AND GET A LIFE
IM,only even looking at this gay page is becuase i have to do a report. otheer than that it pretty much sucks A**

First of all tiffany,

They have proved that global warming is really happening and affecting us. Second, I wouldn't believe someone who spells also aslo and thirdly you may not tell people that they dont have a life reading this when obviously you were reading the exact same site.

Global warming is a large issue in today's society and it is people like you tiffany that pollute our world and dont make it a better place. Please take there words into consideration next time you blabber about something you have no idea what it means

Well..... I have to say that most of you are just uneducated on this subject. Let's clear a few things up....

First of all, none of this has anything to do with 9/11, republicans, george w., or any of that. This is simply an economic comparison. The first mistake that CNW made was comparing a hybrid to a hummer. That was pretty ignorant, i will not pick bones about that. However, when you look at the energy expended and sulfur and carbon released in producing these batteries, you see that there is an obvious problem here. The plant outside of Ontario is releasing ridiculous amounts of pollution into the surrounding area. Also, the cost and energy required to ship the batteries from Canada to Europe to Japan and back to the U.S. is simply preposterous.

All that being said, i drive a full size chevy pickup. It has a 4.3 liter engine, and will get roughly 28 miles to the gallon. You know why? because, unlike most people, i know how to keep up an engine. Proper maintenance goes a long way. Drive what you want.

If you want to save gas, buy a compact car. They do far less harm to the environment than any ugly hybrid ever will.

just pick a Honda or a Toyota, except the seqouia since I think its a gas guzzler. Hummer stands for Huge Ugly Monsterous Machine thats Environmentally Rettarted HUMMER Sucks gas. Hybrids kick gas. just face it. all of Hondas vehicles are recommended by Consumer Reports and 80% of Toyotas GMC, all of the cars they make, about 35%

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-John

I have enjoyed my hybrid for one reason, gas. That’s it. It is too small for my family, and now I get to turn around and sell it for $8k more than I paid for it. I don't think they are safe vehicles, I don't think they are fun vehicles. The best idea I ever had was to sell it and buy a used vehicle with my "profit" and fight through the problems at the pump.

In the mid 90's you could buy a Prius for $13000 because nobody wanted the pieces that they are. Now you can pay twice as much for slight improvements. Save your money and buy a nice used car. Hell, pay cash and lose ridiculous car payments. You will be much happier if you do.

u.s cars are better than foreign cars, to start off. asia does not make better cars than u.s.

douchebags!!!!!!!!

"ASIAN MAKE BETTER CARS THAN WE DO. JUST FACE IT"

Many "Asian" cars are built here, for starters, and the designs are not really new, nor are they exclusively designed by Asians. Maybe the only argument anyone can have against American car companies is that they pay their employees more money(I belive 6 dollars an hour more in the U.S. than toyota last time I checked 34/hr), and the give Americans what they want. GM had the first reasonably-priced, mass-produceable, electric-car, but they saw more profits in gasoline, so they pushed other vehicles and killed innovation. Their doors are still open because our government cares about the common industrial worker, maybe unfairly, but it's a nice feeling to have if you are a consumer buying a car.

It's worth mentioning that Korean cars are garbage, and South Korea charges an import fee on American cars, creating an unfair balance in trade. They also aren't pro-worker in the same respect as Americans have been since the baby boom. Like I said, pat on the back to countries who lower living standards for everyone.

Also, have you considered that Japanese cars contain parts not made in Japan because of industrial capacity and environmental restrictions, so the Chinese companies who make the parts are actually the same really low-quality manufacturer's that American car companies use. American car parts are far superior.

We have to ask this question why have hybrid cars come about. Whats the motive? Excuse the pun. Global Warming. A minoirty will say these need to built because oil is a limited supply, but is it?, and is dirty for the environment but is it? Would you say that man should try and cap all volcanoes? Because if 3 large volcanoes had violent eruptions on this planet at the same time it would do more damage to our environment than anything man could ever do. Hybrids are being created out of the mind set of "fear" and the "not sustainable" this has gone on for a number of years. This is " chicken little syndrome" or the "sky is falling" in which some have gotten extremly wealthy pitching. But in fact when you check history which has actually happened you will find that the earth is going to cool down for a time 20-30-40 years and these same people will continue with their fear to stifle economies and take your money. So do hybrids really need to be built? Because of fear or necessity, because we all know the car companys do not want to build them and 98% of consumers don't want to buy them. Does a tiny minority in america rule now ? Don't believe your TV sets check "all" the facts for youself and make a judgement, this is freedom. Soon, to "these people" everything you do in life will cause global warming or climate change or rainy days or sunny days you get the picture. Man does not effect climate. Here are some facts for you readers from 2010. 1 china's coldest winter in 100 years, 2 American east coat heaviest snowfall in 100 years, 3 15% of arctic ice has refrozen just this year, average mean earth temps has fallen over the last 5 years . That is now why it is called climate change which is a oxy moron because the climate changes all the time, why didn't they like the term global warming? Again i say whats their motive? One more note why do people call making their home more heat effecient "Green" its not "Green" people have been making their homes more heat effecient for hundreds of years and never called it "green". Explain, abbreviations are not specific. Find the Truth.

I think that it is quite simple to calculated the difference - take the cost of the car add the cost of the fuel that it will use over the lifetime add the maintenance cost add the cost of utilization and you will get the energy cost (the energy cost to built the car is already included in the car price). Any hybrid will definitely be less expensive than a Hummer.

Hybrids are the Future, no matter where the auto technology is heading the in the burning the fossil fuel, but eventually what every one needs now is CO2 emission free atmosphere this is where every auto manufacturing company should focus on, "After All We Only Have One Planet"

Regards,
Kevin
http://www.trucksbuyer.com

In this global financial melt down, one cannot afford to waste fuel, and also as transport is very important in day today life, people cannot compromise on fuel and waste it, This is where the Hybrid Technology comes in, Hybrid vehicles are the future that is what is see. Also if Asians Make better cars, how come most toyotas that are sold in North america, are now being built here. well its time for me to go out doors with my Patio Umbrella and relax and let the scientiests figure out this problem, but at my part i will save fuel........ :)

Hybrids are the Rising, no matter where the automobile subject is header the in the fervid the fossil gas, but yet what every one needs now is CO2 egression freeborn ATM this is where every auto manufacturing society should Indus on, "After All We Only Someone One Planet"

Regards,
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Hybrids might be expensive right now but if you calculate correctly you will see that in five to ten years you will have financially gained from the savings on your fuel costs. Even more, they can achieve twice the fuel economy of conventional vehicles and get 50 to 60 miles per gallon. In addition, you won't have the wear and tear on your engine as you would with a conventional gasoline engine

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The firm spent two years collecting more than 4,000 data points for all vehicles on the road—not just hybrids—studying energy costs for every single aspect of the vehicle's creation.

Both Tiffany and Jaker- neither of you used "there" correctly. Tiffany should have said "they're" (among other overlooks) and Jaker should have said "their." Please spell and grammar check YOUR posts. YOU'RE making yourselves look like idiots.

That being said, the article compared a hybrid to a Hummer to make a point. THEY'RE saying that even a Hummer is more environmentally friendly in the long run than a Prius, a much more shocking report than if they said a VW rabbit was. Whether or not this is true, the report purposely used autos that are not similar to emphasize THEIR point.
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Although I really enjoy the concept of a greener planet, hybrid cars don't appeal to me at all - I guess it's because I can't find one that's really good looking (I am very fussy - we even recently purchased a Divan Bed and I had to try about 400 mattresses before finding the right one!!!)

Out with unattractive hybrid cars and give me a Porsche GT3 that runs purely on air!

Rachel

More than Humans animals need the Green planet is what we crave for, well we still have time for that but are we really looking for it, there are still large amount of people who are not will to sacrifice their luxury life for the sake of the planet, hope its time for some third part or i can say a different civilization intervene our plant and bring everything to order.
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Also ich denke ohne Hybrid kommen wir nicht rum.
Aber die Autoindustrie lahmt ja, aber es geht nur ums geld.
Deswegen grosses Lob an Toyota ich selber hab den Hybrid und bin voll begeistert kann es nur empfehlen.
ich habe auch photovotaik und solar für wasser und das nächste projekt ist so ein Blockheizkraftwerk ist genial
leut tut was für die umwelt nur so kommen wir weiter.
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Hopefully the cost of material will be much affordable as we progress, that is the usual trend. We can expect by 2020, this could significantly reduce and could majority of the manufactured cars are already hybrids.

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If a car costs more to purchase, it seems that the price should somehow be related to the energy that went into making it. If hybrids cost more, then it means their manufacturing process should produce more pollutants.
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This is simply an economic comparison. The first mistake that CNW made was comparing a hybrid to a hummer. That was pretty ignorant, i will not pick bones about that. However, when you look at the energy expended and sulfur and carbon released in producing these batteries, you see that there is an obvious problem here.

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The big point here is that the R&D cost for a Hummer is hidden in vehicles that have been built over the past 50 years, where the hybrids have only been developed in the last 5-8 years.

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This is the most rediculous nonsense. The assumptions are what cause these types of things to break down.

It's like the calories-in/calories-out concept of weight gain. If you eat more calories than you expend, you gain weight....they say. The idea concealed in those words...the assumption...is that if you eat less or exercise more you'll loose weight.

This, of course, is built on another assumption. That the human body's energy management system runs at a constant rate regardless of the fact that your restrict calories or start running 5 days a week.

Of course, this is wrong! If you severly restrict calories, your body may down-regulate the amount of energy expended. So if you used to eat 2,200 calories p/day and now you only eat 1,600 calories p/day, you'd think you'd loose weight. In truth, your body lowers your energy expenditure to 1,500 calories p/day and you end up with an excess of 100 calories and thus keep gaining weight even though you feel like you're starving yourself. The assumption that the body's energy metabolisim rate stays the same crashes the reality of the situation.

I'm sure that there are a bunch of other such assumptions in this thought experiment. There's not way a Prius is less economical than a Hummer. LA Fitness

Innovative cars like this should always accept the fact that consumers are looking for eco-friendly autos which will help to reduce environmental wastes. I assume that big companies of cars are taking a closer look about this. Environmental issues we are facing right now is not a small issue anymore and we need to act now.

What is the goal of this? I absolutely do not believe you. But as I said earlier human beings are sophisticated creatures, they do acts that are not always accurate .
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What is the goal of this? I absolutely do not believe you. But as I said earlier human beings are sophisticated creatures, they do acts that are not always accurate .e-ticaret

Thanks

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Both Tiffany and Jaker- neither of you used "there" correctly. Tiffany should have said "they're" (among other overlooks) and Jaker should have said "their." Please spell and grammar check YOUR posts. YOU'RE making yourselves look like idiots.

That being said, the article compared a hybrid to a Hummer to make a point. THEY'RE saying that even a Hummer is more environmentally friendly in the long run than a Prius, a much more shocking report than if they said a VW rabbit was. Whether or not this is true, the report purposely used autos that are not similar to emphasize THEIR point.
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I guess you hang your clothes out to dry, grow your own food, dont have any heat, cooling, electricity, no car, lawn mower BBQ pit and you can't burn wood because it pollutes as well. Starve to death and freeze while I hug my guns, kill something, cook it over a fire, get in my big V8 truck and go buy beer, burn my trash in my yard, run my washer,dryer, fridge, use and pay for my energy and live very comfortable. Take a bath, have lights, the list goes on. If you are really hardcore about your liberal tree hugging demeanor, then head to the woods and see how well you like it at 20 degrees and snowing. Go live like the animals you love.

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Haha, yea. I read once that the hummer is the most inefficient vehicle there is.

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Last night i was reading about the hybrid v.s hummer report on a website. Now, after reading this post i am pretty sure that people will love hybrid vehicles over other options. Good post and keep it up.

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CNW's report is made for the same douchebags who think:

1. American is about freedom and democracy.
2. The Iraq war was about 9/11 and Saddam Hussein
3. The WTC buildings, 1100 ft buildings both fell neatly and naturally into their own footprint and crumbled into small steel pieces.
4. WMD's actually existed.
5. Bush got elected by democratic vote...

Did I miss anything???

Ah yes...

6. God told Bush to invade Iraq.

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A hybrid vehicle is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct power sources to move the vehicle. The term most commonly refers to hybrid electric vehicles. Hybrid cars address the problem of high gas prices and the greenhouse effect. Thanks for sharing the informative post.
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A hybrid vehicle is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct power sources to move the vehicle. The term most commonly refers to hybrid electric vehicles. It is a type of hybrid vehicle and electric vehicle which combines a conventional internal combustion engine. Thanks for sharing the informative post.
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