Comments on: EnerDel Unveils a Lithium Ion Powered Prius

By: khooper

khooper — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:08:49 +0000

There are only so many ways the Car Tech can be used. None of them involve any sort of recharging in a way that we would recognize as hybrid tech.

By: Indigo

Indigo — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:42:51 +0000

Doubling the battery capacity would help out a lot in hilly terrain. My HCH sometimes goes down to one “bar” of charge when driving on the PA turnpike. When that hppens, the IMA stops offering assist and the fuel economy drops a lot.

By: Charlie

Charlie — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:40:10 +0000

Thanks, all, for the input. It was refreshing to be part of such a civilized discussion. You have given me a lot to mull over. Perhaps much of the benefit of a new battery system comes from the non-linear efficiency improvements in the charging cycle of the gas engine (as a charger)and the charge/discharge cycle of the battery. So it’s not as simple as doubling the battery capacity equals better milage.
No, I don’t have a hybrid yet. It’s a little like buying a new PC — they are good today, but they’ll be so much better tomorrow! I’m thinking, I’m thinking…

By: otto

otto — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:38:37 +0000

overall resistance in
charging/unloading the batteriepack
is crucial.
Lithium-ion is only part of that.
Improved capacity is nice
when going down-hill.
Remember Priusrecords of 100mpg
were made AVOIDING at all use of the batteriepack.

It was the puls-glide way
that can do without it.

By: DaveM

DaveM — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:28:33 +0000

give some of the other posts tha toyota themselves might not be the primary market for this battery, but companies doing well using licensed copies of the toyota system.

They should be looking at Ford and Nissan and offering them this product as a future way to make their hybrids stand out from the "stock" system they aquired from Toyota.

One goal may not be to improve the capacity of the battery, but shrink it for the sedan market. The more weight/trunk space you recover, the more attractive the Hybrid becomes for the non-hybrid focused buyer

By: Harold

Harold — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:13:56 +0000

Prius is not the only hybrid out there. Maybe the biggest sellar.

By: Dave K.

Dave K. — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:05:17 +0000

The relationship between battery capacity(both power and energy) and mileage in a hybrid is very complex, as Fred mentioned regenerative braking is a very demanding event for any battery, if it has too high an internal resistance some of the energy will be converted to heat and thus wasted. Also if the hill is too long the capacity may be insufficient. Also, a large amount of the fuel savings in a hybrid comes from running the engine in the higher power more efficient range for a shorter time, thus more capacity would enable longer electric periods punctuated by shorter, more efficient engine cycles. From the CalCars guys I know the Prius Nimh battery is far from ideal in both power and energy density. EnerDel’s battery represents real improvements, unfortunately since Toyota owns a big piece of Panasonic they’re unlikely to use anyone else’s product.

By: Van

Van — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:06:20 +0000

I agree Charlie, if you just double the battery capacity and do not change the existing control system, the fuel economy would probably not be better. However, the next generation Prius, apparently due out in the spring of 2009, is expected to have a larger NiMH battery (2.6 KWH instead of 1.3 KWH). This new Prius is expected to get about 20% better mileage than the existing Prius (about 54 MPG overall versus the existing 46 MPG). It is also expected to be able to operate in "All Electric Mod" (stealth mode) up to 62 MPH for a range of around 7 miles. So it would seem to be a half step toward offering a Plug-in version of the Prius in the future.

What is interesting is that this battery from EnerDel would seem to be a perfect fit for the next Prius, if it has the safety and the cycle and calendar life properties implied by the article.

By: Fred Thomley

Fred Thomley — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:03:06 +0000

Charlie obviously doersn’t own a hybrid! The Batteries are also charged by BRAKING!!!

By: Stan Smart

Stan Smart — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:00:54 +0000

Each new breakthru in battery
technology changes the storage
equation in several ways.

Storage is one; charge time is another. Li-Io batteies charge much more quickly than any
previous technology. Another
idea for electric storage is the
capacitor. Capacitors store electricity almost instantly, but they discharge fast, also.

Several companies are working on
battery - capacitor "hybrids" to improve storage AND charge times.