The eBox
Sponsored links:
Backed by 15 years of experience in building production-quality electric cars from the ground up, AC Propulsion has shifted its strategy to converting a conventional car into an electric vehicle. So, your first stop in buying AC Propulsion’s eBox is a visit to your local Scion dealer to purchase a 5-speed Scion xB wagon, for about $15,000. Or AC Propulsion will coordinate the purchase of an xB near their San Dimas, Calif. headquarters. Then, their engineers will remove the internal combustion engine and related components, and install AC Propulsion’s electric drive and battery system composed of more than 5,000 small cells.
The company chose the Scion xB because of its light weight, practicality (seats five, good storage), ease of conversion, and relative affordability. The cost of conversion will add another $55,000 to the purchase price, but the final result may be the closest thing available today to an EV that can meet the average driver’s need for convenience and drivability: air conditioning, power steering, power windows, power mirrors and remote door locks. Just like a Scion xB, but no emissions. The eBox accelerates to 60 mph in 7 seconds, reaches a top speed of 95 mph and will go between 120 and 150 miles on a charge. The company expects to build 20 to 25 eBoxes through early 2008. Orders take approximately six to eight months to complete. The warranty for the batteries is still being worked out.
-
n/a MPG n/a L/100km
-
BODY TYPE:
Van
-
TECHNOLOGY:
Electric
-
BASE MSRP:
$70,000
The eBox Photos
It's a practical car except the price. That will take time, R & D, and more volume to solve. In the meantime, the rich such as Al Gore have no excuse not to buy one for themselves rather than preach to the rest of us.
I think you underestimate the excuse-making abilities of Al Gore and his ilk, particularly when it comes to defense of their vocal insistence that the rest us do what they themselves will not. Given the ideology of the particular person you mention, I predict something along the lines of AC Propulsion's unconscionable profiteering at the expense of the planet.
Why didn't they pick something better looking to convert. That vehicle is so ugly,it looks like a cross between a UPS truck and a garden shed.
Sure, the vehicle is not at all good looking. But, reducing dangerous emissions and the dependency on oil are far more important objectives than simply owning a car with good looks. We´ve gotta get our priorities (and values) straight. The world desperately needs these initiatives and... fast! Kudos for this company interested on making money AND doing good!!!
Now is that a manual 5-speed transmission, or an autoslushbox?? Hopefully it's the manual...
check out http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/ they do the same thing and have been featured in a few tv spots and interviews. See Multimedia link once in the site.
I interviewed the CEO of this company for my radio podcast show at http://greenlivingideas.com/alternative-fuels-and-transportation/electric-vehicles-with-ac-propu.html and was really impressed with their technologies and what they're doing. Hope to see more from them in the future, including conversions of additional vehicles types. Also hoping that other EV companies like ZAP get models like the ZAP-X shipping soon so that the marketplace begins offering more options, more marketplace competition...and hopefully as a result, features and pricing that will make these vehicles accessible to a larger base of consumers.
Not only is it not practical it IS U G L Y and while that may not seem to matter, it does. People will buy something that looks good and is inviting. The Prius is a good example. Its practical and good looking. I bought mine based on the technology and its looks. If it had looked like the Scion I would have looked elsewhere. Manmade global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the likes of Gore who want to control what other people do while they live the elite lifestyle. If you really want people to change what they drive then give them something that will excite them. The Scion just doesn't do that no matter what it costs.
Beauty, my dear Mr. Howell, is an entirely subjective experience.
domboy is right. The Prius wouldn't win any beauty contest, unless it was the only one in it. Or if it were against the Scion.
Itis n-----------o-----------t ugly & say it is good :0
Okay I take it back it still is good ( 2 thumbs up up for Mr. Howell ) !!!!!!!!!!!
Scion xB I suppose beauty is everyones own idea. I would have spent $70,000 on my prius any day before even considering a box car !
Try carrying big square things in a Prius. That Scion looks fabulous for transporting art across the country safely. If I had the money I would go for it in a heartbeat.
It's beautiful!
What is with the slams on Gore? Can't we leave that kind of thing OUT of discussions about how to lower our oil consumption? It isn't helping. It seems to be better to keep things civil, and on topic.
A Popular Science-type project for rich early-retirees! It's a joke: a $70,000 Toyota that gets moderate performance numbers and poor travel range with no warranty. Worse yet, the high price discourages adding a solar panel roof.
Nice try but there's no business plan here. What if they get fleet prices directly from Toyota or a Scion dealer. Set up an assembly line. And sell their eBoxes themselves for a lower price... with a warranty.
I'm all for getting off the gasoline but if an EV isn't cheaper (over time) in total ownership cost when compared to a gas-burner, it at least has to be a more affordable vehicle. For $70k, I can get any hybrid or two!
For people who are supposed to understand the problems of the present, care about the future, and encourage developments that are slowly giving us solutions, lots of people here are pretty unforgiving, caustic, and quite narrow minded. If AC propulsion converted a miata, you would forget that it's exciting and great-looking, and would probably complain that it has no room for your 18 kids, can't carry a ton of cement, and can't tow your trailer-park home up a 50% slope in reverse.
Obviously one car doesn't fit all owners (I think xB is ugly, too), but it was a very easy fit for a conversion, is light and gives great interior space. This makes it a useful city errand-runner--its range makes it marginal outside of the city anyways.
I do think the pricepoint is unreasonable, however: $70K for a $15K car is just too much to be ever popular. First of all, most people absolutely can't afford a $70K car, and the vast majority of those who can won't pay a $55K premium to be green. People have shown a strong objection (pretty unreasonable one, at that) to pay an extra $2-4K extra for a hybrid, even though they will gain that money back within 3-5 years of normal ownership. Thus, I just don't see any project (whether it's a purpose-built $100K Tesla or $70K conversion) that will be a long-term success at those prices.
Now, we all know that currently electric vehicle components (motors + power electronics + MOSTLY the batteries) cost much more than ICE components even in mass production, so there will be a price premium for any EV. The key question is whether people would actually buy an EV if it offered reasonable range (say practical ~150 miles), in a nice package for a reasonable price (say $30K). A lot of people might say "oh yes, that'd be great", but how many would actually be willing to speak with their wallets?
My problem would be seating 6 rather than 5. Otherwise, this would be a very practical vehicle for the type of driving I do.
I suspect comments about the looks would diminish if it was shown in a more traditional paint job than the example above. The advantage of this vehicle's unique appearance is that it would stand out and be noticed. When electric vehicles are seen on the road, their popularity will increase.
My question is, what happens to the combustion engines and other parts removed during the conversion process? Are they being disposed of responsibly, re-sold to other consumers, or returned to manufacturers? I would feel rather uncomfortable about buying and converting a gas-powered vehicle if I felt converting it would only subsidize another driver's choice to stay with fossil fuels, or otherwise contribute to pollution and waste.
Do the VERY POOR ever get a break in anything in trying to be green and help the mess we make on planet Earth.
I don't care about looks, I would just like to buy one of these cars and help the enviroment at same time.
Hey all you people that the cost doesn't matter to you, can I buy your old vehicle??
Well - yes I agree - the Scion Xb is on the side of ugly compared to nearly any sedan, but how would it compare to converting a big Chevy Taho: http://www.chevrolet.com/tahoe/, or a big Van like the Express: http://www.chevrolet.com/express/ ? Which would be Uglier?
Then - to make Taho or Express go 120 miles or so - in terms of an Electric Vehicle - would likely need a Battery Pack twice the cost, or three times the weight if you go for the cheap solution - Lead Acid Deep Cycle.
Really - for energy efficiency - lighter weight is better and aerodynmaic is better, but - the Xb is a choice of one of those benefits - light weight - with a choice for ease of conversions and relatively roomy space, good driving visibility, (and cheaper than the boxy Honda - the Element).
Sure - I saw a very nice BENTLY leaving the driveway just a couple spots over from my Firefly - AKA Electricfly - and (if you had the money to convert it to electric) it would be a very nice Electrtic car - and likely cost about $200,000 for a well done conversion using 80-100 kWh of A123 Cells, and an incorporated Solar Roof!
Reality is - Gasoline is very efficient in terms of energy in a gallon of it - but - the deal is - we only take out of that energy some 20 - 30%, and end up with polution, brown cities, lung diseases, cancer, and a less enjoyable life! (Plus - we have to look far ans wide these days for our next gallon - not at the pumps - but at the oil well end, and - we let our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters - go fight wars for our pleasure to go grab a nozzle and jam it in the filler neck of our cars to 're-charge' them!
You can't make Gasoline at home with the wind, or the sun, or the stream on your farm, but you can make electricity - and use it to charge up your eBox, eTractor, Miata-e, or my electricfly!
Bettery yet - you could go to an Auto Wrecker (Auto Recycler - some prefer) and pick up some old - used, auto Alternators, carve up some wood for propellors, and get some used angle iron and make a simple - but workable wind turbine for recharging your e-vehicle! Make one - http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_wind.html - or buy one - http://www.skystreamenergy.com/skystream/, and if you have some south facing rooflines - go Solar - http://www.generationsolar.com/, http://www.altersystems.com/catalog/index.php, http://www.homepower.com/home/.
Remember - these are technolgies - the you pay for one time - and they keep on producing energy for you for a long time to come - for 20 years and more! (sometimes even a wind turbine just needs some TLS and a rebuilding every 50 years to keep it in service - http://www.homepower.com/view/?file=HP123_pg6_TOC&pdf=1)
All of them can keep your eBox running - or your electric Miata if you prefer - without having to give you money to the middle east - compete with China and India for your energy, or generally - go to war to keep the sun shining and the wind blowing!
Anyway - it drives farther than my EV: http://www.myelectricfly.com, has better support for parts because it's newer, and I think it is quicker, so - I am not complaining - just working on improving mine - and later adding some lithium Iron phosphate cells - of the ThunderSky Variety - to replace the Trojan Flooded Lead Acid batteries currenly installed.
Not sure why you are picking on Al Gore. I doubt the guy drives a vehicle, but I know his whole house is solar powered. Moreover, he buys energy credits for the rest of the energy he uses.
I personally am waiting for this car:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4251491.html?series=...
You guys rock!!!
Did I miss the obvious. The base car is $15k then they rip the engine and transmission out. What happens to those? Seems they ought to enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to acquire the vehicle without those components for $5k less and drop the price to the end consumer. It's only $5k but when you price is pushing $70 you need to do some pencil sharpening.
As far as ugly....I'm almost at the point where the uglier the better. I just watched "Who killed the Electric Car" and although I get that its probably a pretty one sided documentary I'm ready to let the world know I'm willing to drive 'ugly' if I can thumbing my nose at the big boys and their 30mpg 'pretty'.
Show me an all electric car that my wife and I can realistically commute in (we work at the same place--60 miles round trip) for $30k or less and we'll show you a buyer.
I, for one, am shocked that more people will not make a slight effort to save the Earth -- the very thing that provides us with life.
Here is the reality: Most people care about IMPROVING. When people buy a new car, they want something faster, bigger, sleeker, and/or more powerful. Aggressive drivers and people who love speed want faster. People who feel unsafe on the road, or people who feel small typically want bigger. Vain people want sleeker. Most people are at least a little bit of each of these. Including me.
For only very few of is the desire to save the world such a strong motivating factor that it will trump these other basic desires.
Until the Federal and State governments FORCE us (or let us -> see recent example of the EPA overturning California state law setting standards for sales of high-efficiency/low-emissions vehicles http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/washington/20epa.html) to start driving cars that are more, we, the selfish citizens will continue to buy the fastest, biggest, gas-guzzlingest cars we can buy, not because we adore burning gas, but because we like power, cavernous interiors, and feeling safe (even if we're not any safer in an SUV or any other huge car).
To get back to the subject of this thread -- the eBox, I must say this is yet another example of how your average eco-car company just doesn't get it... This car is doing everything BUT enticing people to buy electric.
They should really invest in a custom paintjob... Maybe get one of those cool designers who have their stuff at Giant Robot or who design basketball sneakers get a shot designing a signature model.
hello
Not many people can afford this car, I know I couldn't in my lifetime. $70K is outrageous! Aside from being way over priced, it is ugly. I don't like the box style. The paint isn't great either, but the box style is what I dislike most. Vehicles are apart of our everyday lives and if I'm going to buy a new one, it better be something I like and intend on keeping for a long while.
For now 'ugly' is better. The first 1000 cars should all be ebox advertisements. Let people know you have taken a stand and are driving green. They could even offer a free paint job after 'X' number of years to get rid of the advertising. Better to be noticed and thought ugly than invisible because you blend in with all the other 'beautiful' cars.
The price is a problem. The majority of the population will never own a car with a $70,000 price tag no matter how green they want to be.
Next problem: most of the country won't get a chance to tryout these vehicles. It's like watching an all california super bowl...so-so interest. They should select some prime cities around the country so the general population can get some hands on experience. Then it would take off and even with a lower price would still turn a profit.
my 2 cents
Take the bus or subway train......
Your comment is right on target; this vehicle is so ugly. If it had softer lines or was more appealing.
I'd like to see a car maker provide options for the body and different color schemes or upload photos of what we want for our car.
PW: Your comment is right on target; this vehicle is so ugly. If it had softer lines or was more appealing.
I'd like to see a car maker provide options for the body and different color schemes or upload photos of what we want for our car.
That's Crazy!
For this price I could convert a used H3 that can get a 1000 miles per charge.
Which is still too expensive for the average person.
I, for one, am shocked that more people will not make a slight effort to save the Earth -- the very thing that provides us with life.
Here is the reality: Most people care about IMPROVING. When people buy a new car, they want something faster, bigger, sleeker, and/or more powerful. Aggressive drivers and people who love speed want faster. People who feel unsafe on the road, or people who feel small typically want bigger. Vain people want sleeker. Most people are at least a little bit of each of these. Including me.
For only very few of is the desire to save the world such a strong motivating factor that it will trump these other basic desires.
Until the Federal and State governments FORCE us (or let us -> see recent example of the EPA overturning California state law setting standards for sales of high-efficiency/low-emissions vehicles http://www.batterygoshop.co.uk ) to start driving cars that are more, we, the selfish citizens will continue to buy the fastest, biggest, gas-guzzlingest cars we can buy, not because we adore burning gas, but because we like power, cavernous interiors, and feeling safe (even if we're not any safer in an SUV or any other huge car).
As to not many people can afford this $70,000.00 Car - While you and I might not be able to, there are, unfortunately a lot of millionaires who could, but wouldn't - because of what some call the extreme ugly factor - as per the many comments here. But then again - why do people buy Hummers, either H1, H2, or even H3 (for that one - they could just buy a Jeep Sahara!)?
However - there are more than just one dBox on the road, just not as many as Tesla Roadsters - with now over 700 made and delivered - even at about $109,000, so - price is obviously not the prime issue, but the sexy factor, and speed - is! (And range a bit too - Teslas have been driven on a number of long trips - with charging points considered, and thier base range of more than 200 miles definitely covers the commute to work, for some for a week, and for me just about all year!)
I would say the components AC Propulsion uses, with $25,000 alone for the Drive Train without the batteries, is part of the issue, but the price should be coming down as time progresses - for that as well as the batteries. For the two people commute to work - Just convert a small light pickup truck like the Ford Ranger, use the least expensive Lithium Cells - from ThunderSky, and put in how much kWh you need for 150% of your daily driving needs.
As to the AC Propuldion Drive train Cost at $25,000 - I think that would be fine in an Aircraft KitPlane - since that is the typical new engine price for an Aircraft Engine, and some Glass Cockpits in Kit Airplanes cost over $55,000 just for the screens and components, so the prices for this conversion - while high for us poor foks, are not that high.
The eBox, or Scion xB anyway - have got a new - softer shape for the 2009's, and then there is the Kia Soul, for a competitor in the mini-boxes! Now - if they could make them also more aerodynamic, and still carry 5 or 6 sitting upright, they would have something!
My relevant Sites:
http://www.myelectricfly.com
http://www.aerocaps.info
Post a new comment