Behind the Hidden Costs of Hybrids
Published September 28, 2006
A technician seals a Prius battery module. Some dealerships replace the entire battery pack rather than fixing the connections. (Photo: Automotive Career Development Center.)
One journalist after the next purports the same point about hybrid gas-electric cars: they are not worth the extra cost. The writers' lack of originality is only surpassed by their inability to get all the facts. When they proclaim that the extra cost of buying a hybrid will not be recouped in savings at the pump—as if they were the first person, rather than the thousandth, to "discover" a nefarious plot against American car buyers—the writer usually fails to consider tax credits, reduced maintenance, and historically excellent resale value. But nothing conjures up more fear and hysteria than these two words: hidden costs.
In June 2005, the L.A. Times reported that hybrid battery replacement costs dropped from $10,000 in 2001 to about $3,000 today. But three months later, Car and Driver's Brock Yates—no fan of hybrids—wrote, "battery replacement will cost $5,300 for the Toyota and Lexus hybrids, and the Ford Escape replacements run a whopping $7,200." Yates compared hybrid's rechargeable batteries to the "dry cells in your flashlight...[which] have finite lives and store less power with age." He also insinuated some kind of cover-up, writing that "industry types are not talking about total battery life."
They’re talking—but Brock’s not listening. Jim Francfort, principal investigator at the Idaho National Laboratory in Idaho Falls, which is operated for the Department of Energy, has been talking about it. His hybrid battery tests showed that 160,000 miles of use had no effect on fuel economy. Andrew Grant, the Vancouver, Canada, taxi driver who drove his Prius for more than 200,000 miles in 25 months, tells all about his Prius, which has taken a pummeling and kept on humming. At industry conferences, engineer after engineer will tell anybody who bothers to ask that hybrid batteries are, in fact, over-manufactured for their task.
The Plot Thickens
The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the car for parts."
Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to $9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001 Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing, after all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001 Priuses in the same shop at the same time, if they have had no problems with the batteries?"
To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften the damage to his pocketbook—only to discover that the salvage battery's #13 cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem on his Prius.
All of this threw me for a loop. Apparently, it had the same effect on Toyota.
Ray continued to appeal to Toyota's corporate offices, and finally got through to a customer care representative who promised to look at the Ray's expenses. He persisted at the local level, and finally got Metroplex Toyota in Houston to clean the corrosive cell on the salvage battery and install it—at half their normal price—in his Prius. The total bill, including rental car, salvage battery, service, and gasoline during the entire ordeal, was $1,345. Ray's Prius runs like a top again.
One month and three unreturned phone calls later, Ray gave up on getting any financial or emotional support from Toyota's Customer Care Department.
Making the Connection?
I shared Ray's story with my friend, Craig Van Batenburg, a master hybrid technician who conducts workshops with independent service shops around the country. "This is exactly why I am training indy techs to work on these cars," Craig said. "It is not a problem with the nickel metal hydride cells, but a corroded connection. This is common with any electrical connector on any part of any car. The dealerships don’t fix the connections. They replace the entire hybrid battery."
So Ray’s ordeal wasn’t caused by a failure of new hybrid battery technology—those batteries will last the life of the vehicle and will help save hundreds of gallons of gasoline for their owners. And the next generation of lithium ion batteries may be one of the keys to weaning America off its dependence on oil. The root of Ray's problems stemmed from an ordinary corroded connection, the failure of a huge corporation to respond to one of their customers, and the willingness of a local car dealership to profit handsomely from a problem rather than fix it at a reasonable cost. Unfortunately, these stories are just as hidden in the media as all of those so-called “hidden costs” of owning a hybrid.
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I like everything you have to say, it all sounds legitimate. I want to help the environment, I want to buy a hybrid car, but I am still not convinced. I would like to know how much making a battery taxes the environment, if the complete cost of the hybrid, minus gas prices and tax breaks and battery replacement after 8-10 years, really makes it a better deal.
I can't find any corroborating information so don't know if this is unique, but I have a 2006 Prius that I use to commute 120 miles round trip to work and home. It has 55K miles and the battery pack had to be replaced. The tech says a short in one of the in-line connections. The dealer provided me with a 2007 Prius loaner and replaced the pack under the new car warranty which he said was 120K miles or 10 years. He did indicated that the replacement cost was approximately $7,000. Anyone else had this problem?
Battery replacement costs would exceed my current vehicle maintenance and gas consumption cost for my transportation requirements as a senior citizen. I would not consider replacing my 1991 olds with a Hybrid; although I would gladly consider an economical total electric vehicle (even though it’s size would likely compact in comparison – car manufacturers continue to decease the interior space of cars) should they ever be manufactured and retailed to the public.
We just looked at a Prius (End Oct. 07) and I asked, how long the battery would be good for. I was told 8 years or 100,000 miles. Then I asked for replacement cost. Nobody even did know that answer, but they went to the technical department to find out. The answer was $8,000 - and this came from a sales person that wanted to sell me a car that would cost me between $25K-$30K. Don't forget that the major monthly cost will be your car payment! You could drive a full loaded Saturn Aura Sedan with a combined 25mpg for $211/month. With gas for 1000 miles you would pay a total of $323. The Prius would only cost us only half the gas ($56 instead of $112) but the best advertised lease in the country for a Prius is $319. So with the gas the Prius would cost a total of $375 a month. Just over 1200miles a month the total cost for both cars are the same - but - the Saturn Sedan is still a much nicer car! It is the same old consideration like buying a Diesel car. Do I drive enought to justify the more expensive car? But at least we all know, that the Diesel Engine will outlast all the other engines by many miles while the Hybrid has a definite deadline somewhen...
83,000 miles into the Honda Civic Hybrid, I learned that the replacement cost of the battery pack was $5,000. BTW, it took the Honda Service Writer quite a while to find that info -- apparently, it's not readily available even to Honda service technicians. Also, I asked if they ever had a problem with the battery pack, and the service tech said, to his credit, yes -- there was a hybrid where the computer read out went haywire on the battery pack. And they replaced it.
Fortunately, my Civic's battery pack is fine -- (knock on wood). I'm glad to have learned that often the problem is with an electrical connection. Now I need to learn how to spot the problem and then how to fix/replace the connection.
Finally, you may have a recourse if your battery pack fails. A battery pack failure will, of course, affect the amount of exhaust pollutants coming out of your tail pipe per mile -- it will increase it, thereby violating exhaust emissions standards. You may want to research that and see if you can somehow use that to get a free replacement battery pack.
I cant find any place on the internet offering these indiividual cells forsale
Metroplex Toyota is in Dallas, not Houston. If you got that wrong, what about the other "Facts" in your article?
Let's just play the numbers via a spreedsheet:
GP = Pontiac Grand Prix 28mpg. Prius 46mpg. Gas price fixed to $3.00. No inflation factor. Miles shown top row. Battery replacement cost RH column. The body shows cost for the miles and battery replacement costs
150,000 200,000 250,000 Batt Repl. Cost
GP $16,071 $21,429 $26,786
Prius $12,783 $16,043 $19,304 $3,000
Prius $14,783 $18,043 $21,304 $5,000
Prius $17,783 $21,043 $24,304 $8,000
Now all you need is a crystal ball to forecast gas price increases (20% per year?) and battery replacement costs.
Nick
I'm trying to decide whether or not to get a honda civic or a honda civic hybrid. The battery thing has me not sure what to do. I currently own a mazda 6 6 cylinder which gets a bout 23-24 mpg.
We have a 2005 Prius with over 50k on it and we are averaging 40 mpg in the winter and
48 in the spring and about 51 in the summer. With gas approaching $4.00 a gallon, it was
one of the best impulse purchases I have ever made. I drive it regularly to Seattle and San
Francisco, and as a long haul vehicle it is awesome. It weighs about 3500 #s and is solid
like a Cadillac and when you accelerate from 60 to 100 ( like I have done in Nevada
passing long strings of cars and semi-trucks ) I was very surprised how quick it got up
there and it was awesome. Maybe not a Lamberginie, but then again, I did not pay
$150,000 either. If I can scrape up the money, I will definitely buy another Prius. Right
now the economy sucks and so does my income, and paying $3.79 a gallon hurts, but not
as much as driving my 98' S10 Chevy Pickup that gets only 18 mpg. As for the batteries,
they are expected to last the life of the car (200k - 300k) because they do not discharge
fully and recharge, which is the big problem with all other batteries. The cost then will be
probably around $2,000, and gas could be $6.00 a gallon. the rate it is going up now.
The NIMHI battery will probably be around for a long as the lighter Lith bats tend to
catch fire.
I just bought a 2003 toyota prius with 101,250 miles on it. I drove it from GA to st. louis and when I got home the car button with the horizontal exclamation point was flashing. We think it's the battery light. We are scared we will have to try replacing the battery. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Just wanted to add something here. I just got a new 2007 Altima Hybrid (same hybrid system as the Camry, I believe), and just over 2 months and 2500 miles into it, one of the cells went bad. This supposedly drained the 12V battery overnight, so I was unable to start the car. I've been told that it will be 3-4 business days for the Nissan dealer to get a replacement. This is being replaced under warranty, and the dealer is providing a rental for the duration, but thought I'd throw my experience in.
Well I hate to rain on your parade, but I just got a quote on a battery replacement for a 2003 Honda Insight with 150,000 miles.
Try $6312.70 !!!!!!!
The battery (refurbished) replaced and 2 control modules plus labor.
What they fail to tell you is that the IMA battery weakens with age. Performance is slipping on my Insight. My 2003 is in self recharge most of the time. Unless there is an error light on in your dash, Honda won't do anything.
I do not see where hybrids are cost effective and I own 3 of them. For That kinda of money I can buy 1500 gallons of gasoline at $4 a gallon. I am really miffed because I was told around $1500 to replace the battery when I bought it. Who wants to invest that kind of money when the car is 5 to 10 years old. The battery replacement is worth more than the car. I was once a hybrid man but they are a scam....I am trading in the 3 I have.
Sucker
This question prevented me from a Hybrid purchase mainly because I was looking for a car to keep for 10+ years. If I wanted the hybrid I would have leased.
Right now lease rates & resale for used hybrids are good but I wonder how long this will last if battery replacment becomes a common problem. I looks like buying a used hybrid is a big risk at the premiums they cost.
I do a lot of driving for work, wo I was considering getting a Hybrid. But I am now having seconf thoughts since the battery life is guaranteed to have to be replaced within 5-6 years. The Hybrid has really taken off in the past couple of years and every car company is now in the works with new technology. I think what we need to do as consumers is demand longer lasting/cheaper batteries. Dont just impulse-buy. Make your voice heard ans tell those car companies that the only way you will buy their product is if they impove it. a $5000 batter after 5 years? It's 2008 and we don't have to stand for it.
The end result of what is happening here is that people that really want to invest in hybrids will begin to stay away ... especially to purchase used hybrids that will be at or near the end of the batteries' life-cycle; because it is a very risky and potentially expensive purchase.
I fit this category and will now no longer consider a hybrid as a used car investment - just doesn't make any sense. Even makes me wonder if it makes sense as a new car investment because eventually the potential buyers will dwindle in number as the "word" gets out ... unless the battery prices head south in a big way ... which probably won't happen.
What really needs to happen is that instead of us [the consumer] subsidizing Toyota's [and other manufacturers'] R&D ... they need to buy back their "bad" batteries and subsidize an exchange program where the consumer [any owner of a hybrid - original owner or future owner] only has to pay $1000 to replace the batteries if that is indeed the problem [or guarantee the batteries and electrical components for 500,000 miles with no exceptions - period!].
The manufacturers also need to subsidize troubleshooting all electrical connections/battery connection & contact problems at a cap of $50 per service call with a maximum of $250 total cost for 500,000 miles regardless of how many owner. It puts the responsibility on the manufacturer to make this technology work!
Why do we, the consumer, have to assume the risk and R&D for this newer technology and its obscene cost to replace it. It is absurd! The manufacturers needs to step up to the plate!
We should be driving around with photovoltaic enabled vehicles [to run our car stereos, lights, and a/c's]. These vehicles need to have LED brake lights and turn-signals, and use compressed-air to power our cars - http://www.theaircar.com/ and build smaller more fuel efficient vehicles like the Nano - http://tatanano.inservices.tatamotors.com/tatamotors/.
GM could turn the Janesville, Wisconsin facility into an Air Car facility .... and give people jobs .... instead of producing SUV's and trucks ... that we do not need.
I've changed over to CFL's in my house and even have some LED's too to minimize my family's electrical consumption. But going "green" with car technology - no way! It is time for the car companies to start producing vehicles that make sense and work for us ,and, to not hold us at ransom!
Just my 2-C's.
I am driving my second 1989 Accord on my 70-mile each way commute. My first had 309 Kmiles on it when I found my current one. This one now has 226 Kmiles, almost all trouble-free. I asked my Honda mechanic about hybrids as I would love to get the 50-70 mpg I've been hearing about. He set me straight. He said the replacement costs of the batteries is approx. $5000. He says he sees them at auctions sitting around needing new batteries and they have almost no resale value. I'm sticking with my good old standard Hondas. Did I mention I drive my little car cruising at 70-75 MPH and am getting 32 mpg?
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