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	<title>Comments on: The Experiences of Two Plug-In Hybrid Early Drivers</title>
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	<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/</link>
	<description>Auto alternatives for the 21st century</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 19:24:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Janice</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2442</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been trying to get a lot of knowledge about cars and Hybrids are one topic that I find very interesting. This post gave me a new knowledge about hybrids. Lately, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.retailmenot.com/view/autopartswarehouse.com&quot;&gt;Autopartswarehouse&lt;/a&gt; was also a good source information.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to get a lot of knowledge about cars and Hybrids are one topic that I find very interesting. This post gave me a new knowledge about hybrids. Lately, <a href="http://www.retailmenot.com/view/autopartswarehouse.com">Autopartswarehouse</a> was also a good source information.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck S.</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2441</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I assume the Honda Civic Hybrid is not a possible PHEV because it cannot run on electric only. True? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume the Honda Civic Hybrid is not a possible PHEV because it cannot run on electric only. True? </p>
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		<title>By: gojoe283</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2440</link>
		<dc:creator>gojoe283</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I only wish the plug in option was available for the 2001-2003 Prius. This model didn&#039;&#039;t get as good mileage as the newer model, and I&#039;d be willing to forgo stuff like A/C (never use it anyway) to get the higher mileage. The requirement to run the gas engine till it warms up, causes fuel mileage to go way down when on short trips...Bill H.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only wish the plug in option was available for the 2001-2003 Prius. This model didn&#8221;t get as good mileage as the newer model, and I&#8217;d be willing to forgo stuff like A/C (never use it anyway) to get the higher mileage. The requirement to run the gas engine till it warms up, causes fuel mileage to go way down when on short trips&#8230;Bill H.</p>
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		<title>By: hybridcars-jadon</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2439</link>
		<dc:creator>hybridcars-jadon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Give up the &quot;fuzzy math&quot; of MPG after plugging-in. It is better to account for your mileage as a combination both gallons of gas burned and kW-hr of electricity used. For each trip, log all three values (miles, gallons, and kW-hrs). Many consumers will only want to hear the miles per dollar, so, if you have to summarize down to one number, consider using that (MP$). If you want a number that is more eco-conscience, try miles per cubic-foot-of-CO2. Just stop saying 100+ MPG, because the people that aren&#039;t listening today will certainly ignore you when they feel that you aren&#039;t counting the costs of the electricity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give up the &#8220;fuzzy math&#8221; of MPG after plugging-in. It is better to account for your mileage as a combination both gallons of gas burned and kW-hr of electricity used. For each trip, log all three values (miles, gallons, and kW-hrs). Many consumers will only want to hear the miles per dollar, so, if you have to summarize down to one number, consider using that (MP$). If you want a number that is more eco-conscience, try miles per cubic-foot-of-CO2. Just stop saying 100+ MPG, because the people that aren&#8217;t listening today will certainly ignore you when they feel that you aren&#8217;t counting the costs of the electricity.</p>
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		<title>By: rafael_g_seidl</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2438</link>
		<dc:creator>rafael_g_seidl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[William -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
your (large) PV array could indeed produce electricity during the day that could be traded against night-time hydropower from the grid. You&#039;d need a high-quality power converter to feed juice into the grid, though. The alternative is a bank of (lead acid) batteries to buffer the energy; deep discharges would severely shorten its lifespan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Either way, you really could be driving on pure sunshine at zero recurring energy cost. However, you&#039;d still have to amortize its initial cost and incur cleaning overheads plus insurance fees or repair costs (e.g. after a hailstorm).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Btw, the combined cost of Iraq, Afghanistan and homeland security has been over $300 billion so far. A huge number, to be sure, but the US population is around 300 million. Ergo, you&#039;re off by a factor 10.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William -</p>
<p>your (large) PV array could indeed produce electricity during the day that could be traded against night-time hydropower from the grid. You&#8217;d need a high-quality power converter to feed juice into the grid, though. The alternative is a bank of (lead acid) batteries to buffer the energy; deep discharges would severely shorten its lifespan.</p>
<p>Either way, you really could be driving on pure sunshine at zero recurring energy cost. However, you&#8217;d still have to amortize its initial cost and incur cleaning overheads plus insurance fees or repair costs (e.g. after a hailstorm).</p>
<p>Btw, the combined cost of Iraq, Afghanistan and homeland security has been over $300 billion so far. A huge number, to be sure, but the US population is around 300 million. Ergo, you&#8217;re off by a factor 10.</p>
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		<title>By: rafael_g_seidl</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2437</link>
		<dc:creator>rafael_g_seidl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ray -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I did not &quot;miss out on the oil supply and eco issues&quot;, I simply do not have any data regarding how much these are worth to prospective customers. Given the fiasco in Iraq, that number may well be higher now than it used to be, but I suspect it will still be close to zero for *most* consumers as long as the majority gets a free ride on these issues. Raising US gasoline and diesel taxes would make PHEVs attractive even at much higher up-front premiums.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray -</p>
<p>I did not &#8220;miss out on the oil supply and eco issues&#8221;, I simply do not have any data regarding how much these are worth to prospective customers. Given the fiasco in Iraq, that number may well be higher now than it used to be, but I suspect it will still be close to zero for *most* consumers as long as the majority gets a free ride on these issues. Raising US gasoline and diesel taxes would make PHEVs attractive even at much higher up-front premiums.</p>
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		<title>By: ray.whalley2</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2436</link>
		<dc:creator>ray.whalley2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great stuff Felix, its amazing how critics of this solution always miss out on the oil supply and eco issues when demonstrating the financial justifiction.&lt;br /&gt;
I am paying almost £1 sterling per litre for unleaded petrol in th UK, I think the sums work work using these figures.&lt;br /&gt;
Still no sign of obtaining the PHEV conversion anywhere in Europe yet, although Amberjack projects in Grantham keep promising!&lt;br /&gt;
I like the bit about powering the fridge with the Prius.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff Felix, its amazing how critics of this solution always miss out on the oil supply and eco issues when demonstrating the financial justifiction.<br />
I am paying almost £1 sterling per litre for unleaded petrol in th UK, I think the sums work work using these figures.<br />
Still no sign of obtaining the PHEV conversion anywhere in Europe yet, although Amberjack projects in Grantham keep promising!<br />
I like the bit about powering the fridge with the Prius.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rafael_g_seidl</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2435</link>
		<dc:creator>rafael_g_seidl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Felix -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
nice summary, thank you. What strikes me is the narrow focus on fuel economy and the energy cost per mile driven.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It would be helpful to also include information about the premium consumers should be prepared to pay for a series production PHEV with similar performance characteristics. IMHO, the ROI horizon for that premium should be on the order of 10 years, since there are fringe benefits (points 4 and 6).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You indicate that the purely monetary energy cost of your PHEV&#039;s gasoline plus off-peak grid electricity is comparable to traditional fuel economy of around 80 mpg (point 3). If we compare that to a ICE-only vehicle that gets e.g. 25 mpg combined, the annual difference at 12000 miles/year would be 330 gallons of gasoline, worth around $1,000 in CA (assuming average gas prices will be about $3 going forward).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Future inflation reduces the NPV of future savings, but also increases their amount, so this cancels out. Ergo, an up-front premium of around $10,000 should be acceptable for a 10-year ROI horizon, assuming that lifetime maintenance costs will not be significantly higher for a PHEV.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, this sum would have to cover the PHEV battery pack, power converter, electric motor, drivetrain control enhancements and installation cost. It does not include the monetary and psychological value of your contributions to GHG mitigation and energy independence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it feasible to produce a PHEV variant of a regular ICE-only vehicle and sell it at a premium of just $10,000? The mfg cost premium would have to be substantially lower to allow for sales &amp; marketing overheads.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix -</p>
<p>nice summary, thank you. What strikes me is the narrow focus on fuel economy and the energy cost per mile driven.</p>
<p>It would be helpful to also include information about the premium consumers should be prepared to pay for a series production PHEV with similar performance characteristics. IMHO, the ROI horizon for that premium should be on the order of 10 years, since there are fringe benefits (points 4 and 6).</p>
<p>You indicate that the purely monetary energy cost of your PHEV&#8217;s gasoline plus off-peak grid electricity is comparable to traditional fuel economy of around 80 mpg (point 3). If we compare that to a ICE-only vehicle that gets e.g. 25 mpg combined, the annual difference at 12000 miles/year would be 330 gallons of gasoline, worth around $1,000 in CA (assuming average gas prices will be about $3 going forward).</p>
<p>Future inflation reduces the NPV of future savings, but also increases their amount, so this cancels out. Ergo, an up-front premium of around $10,000 should be acceptable for a 10-year ROI horizon, assuming that lifetime maintenance costs will not be significantly higher for a PHEV.</p>
<p>However, this sum would have to cover the PHEV battery pack, power converter, electric motor, drivetrain control enhancements and installation cost. It does not include the monetary and psychological value of your contributions to GHG mitigation and energy independence.</p>
<p>Is it feasible to produce a PHEV variant of a regular ICE-only vehicle and sell it at a premium of just $10,000? The mfg cost premium would have to be substantially lower to allow for sales &#038; marketing overheads.</p>
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		<title>By: schiappas</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/early-driver-experiences/#comment-2434</link>
		<dc:creator>schiappas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=598#comment-2434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PHEVs look like a good idea unless that is you have PG&amp;E for your utility. With top tier rates just raised to .37/kw it just doesn&#039;t make economic sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PHEVs look like a good idea unless that is you have PG&#038;E for your utility. With top tier rates just raised to .37/kw it just doesn&#8217;t make economic sense.</p>
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