One poster (Bryan) here correctly asks "BTW, what is this magic tweak that Toyota is supposedly going to implement to get the prius from high 40s to low 60s?"

I have heard a lot of talk about mpg. But no-one talks about the
overall energy footprint of these new devices. Nor do they publish into oz or pounds the amounts of required metalsoil/plastic etc to produce. (are we doing better or worse)

There simply isn't going to be enough platinum to make all
these stacks. I know everyone is thinking recyclability but
who is giving the numbers and details?

Regarding mpg.. What they aren't telling you is the higher mpgs
are being offset by power put into their 'suped up' add/on or replaced Lithium batteries.

It's all about energy folks and the idea one can suck electricity from the grid and drop it in a battery pack AND use the battery to offset gas use and HENCE improve mpg completely obscures the whole issue of energy 'efficiency'.

How about people talk about how much coal, oil, NG, etc. it
takes to drop 1Kwhr into that litium battery (including
generation losses, and all resistive/conversion losses along
the way).

I'm very big on going to a Hydrogen economy. I figure if almost every cell on this planet can play with protons/hydrogen to produce energy. WE would be wise to follow suit.

I like a lot of work going on but am pissed at the over promotion vs. the very serious and public self analysis of the OVERALL energy footprint of people commuting 50-100miles/day vs. those who do 10-20.. Tack on to this the energy footprint of the production and disposal of ALL the required materials to support this behavior and I think people will quickly realize how 'efficient' being 10-20 vs. 50-100miles from work is AS well as doing it by bicycle vs. your wang dang doodle hybrid or worse the SUV..

But hey we Americans have to support our growing inner tubed fat a$$es until we can grok the true meaning of 'efficiency' and its relation not to just our own personal health but the health of the entire planet (not just me, but you, all of us, and everything)..

So in this vein at least we are finally taking a 'first step'. Now we need to take the next 10.. Quickly!

I am very much of the same mind as those google founders. I see Honda is thinking ahead. I want my fuel cell car to plug into the grid. I also want these fuel cell stacks to be fully reversible. So when there is excess energy in the grid my car can produce extra fuel and load it into the tanks directly..

Looks like making and storing fuel is more complex than utilizing it to produce electricity.

My point is that our power grid could be far more reliable if we at least in the US start thinking about energy as something we all have to produce, store, and share then indeed we might make a most significant step forward..

It's Jul 1, 2007 and I've got the cash and am ready to buy.. But until I get an answer to the energy footprint issue I'll keep using my 30mpg 87 saab. I'll also break out the bike even more to try to do my part for reducing my own energy footprint on this planet AS WELL as work that slightly growing fat innertube off my lazy US a$$..

As to fuel. Try computing your foot print of gasoline alone for 3 months. Then purchase the cans and the gas and you'll get a good feeling for how serious your 'gasoline' footprint is on the planet. Mine varies but is on the order of 12gal/month (one tank). 36gal is some pretty seroius weight to lug around by hand..

Just think about it..

l8r,
R.