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	<title>Comments on: Civic Hybrid Mileage Brouhaha Continues</title>
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	<description>Auto alternatives for the 21st century</description>
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		<title>By: gavin hughes</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22779</link>
		<dc:creator>gavin hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Our family has a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid and love it. Fuel efficiency does seem to get better with time, got 4.8L/100km from Monbulk in Dandenong Ranges down to Chandler Hwy exit in Kew Melbourne. I want to check with Honda &amp; tyre manufacturer why they don&#039;t promote what I found out below from Bridgestone&#039;s website so we can increase our tyre pressures a bit more too as they only give one setting and it seems to be for max comfort, not for max efficiency, load or hwy driving considerations. The tyres are low resistance rolling tyres anyway though. I have left roof racks on as they are aerodynamic but keep the roof carrier off unless we use it as it has well recommended quick clamp release system (otherwise I would be tempted to leave it on sometimes).&lt;br /&gt;
I am probably getting more used to driving to maximise electric assist and regeneration (breaking early and gradually increasing pedal to floor to get to desired cruise speeds). Also looking far ahead to best guage when to break earlier, not to accelerate or in traffic, not to edge forward unless we are actually starting to all move or there is a big gap (as it puts the engine on soon as you take the foot off the brake!). Engine turns off when you slow enough so I can often coast slowly with no engine in traffic or coasting to lights. I obviously try not to upset other drivers too with all this and most don’t notice it or the fact I am in a hybrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
TIP: ensure you check with your state motor authority if you need to put a special sticker on your numberplate showing it is a hybrid (like LPG cars need to as emergency rescue staff need to know what precautions to take when attending accidents). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Background: We bought it second hand at the car auctions in Melbourne for under $20K with 67,000kms on it. We had to pay for the roadworthy, rego and a new windscreen due to stone chips and a crack. We then got custom sheep skin covers fitted in the front and custom velour covers for the back that all look/work great for place in Preston for under $400. We got aerodynamic roof racks and luggage carrier that allow us to still go camping despite losing our stationwagon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tyres:&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, here is the good oil (saved!) thanks for Bridgestone’s website which said:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Contrary to popular belief, tyre pressure is not determined by the type of tyre or its size but upon your vehicle’s load and driving application i.e. speed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Take the “cold” reading and check them against the recommended tyre pressures from your placard. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heavy loads or towing puts an extra strain on your tyres. So if your vehicle is fully loaded with passengers and luggage, the general rule is to add 28kpa (4PSI or 4lbs).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At high speed, (defined as driving at 120km/h for over one hour), your tyres will wear out twice as fast as when you drive at 70-80 km/h. If your tyres are under-inflated by twenty per cent tyre life can be reduced by thirty per cent.&lt;br /&gt;
The rule here is to add 28Kpa (4PSI) from your Minimum Compliance Plate Pressure. Don’t inflate your tyres above 40 psi or 280 kPa. When the tyres get hot from driving, the pressure will increase even more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Believe it or not, checking your tyre pressure can have a big impact on our environment. An under-inflated tyre creates more rolling resistance and therefore more fuel consumption. By keeping your tyres inflated to their proper levels, you can help maximise your car’s fuel economy and minimise its impact on our environment.&lt;br /&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our family has a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid and love it. Fuel efficiency does seem to get better with time, got 4.8L/100km from Monbulk in Dandenong Ranges down to Chandler Hwy exit in Kew Melbourne. I want to check with Honda &#038; tyre manufacturer why they don&#8217;t promote what I found out below from Bridgestone&#8217;s website so we can increase our tyre pressures a bit more too as they only give one setting and it seems to be for max comfort, not for max efficiency, load or hwy driving considerations. The tyres are low resistance rolling tyres anyway though. I have left roof racks on as they are aerodynamic but keep the roof carrier off unless we use it as it has well recommended quick clamp release system (otherwise I would be tempted to leave it on sometimes).<br />
I am probably getting more used to driving to maximise electric assist and regeneration (breaking early and gradually increasing pedal to floor to get to desired cruise speeds). Also looking far ahead to best guage when to break earlier, not to accelerate or in traffic, not to edge forward unless we are actually starting to all move or there is a big gap (as it puts the engine on soon as you take the foot off the brake!). Engine turns off when you slow enough so I can often coast slowly with no engine in traffic or coasting to lights. I obviously try not to upset other drivers too with all this and most don’t notice it or the fact I am in a hybrid. </p>
<p>TIP: ensure you check with your state motor authority if you need to put a special sticker on your numberplate showing it is a hybrid (like LPG cars need to as emergency rescue staff need to know what precautions to take when attending accidents). </p>
<p>Background: We bought it second hand at the car auctions in Melbourne for under $20K with 67,000kms on it. We had to pay for the roadworthy, rego and a new windscreen due to stone chips and a crack. We then got custom sheep skin covers fitted in the front and custom velour covers for the back that all look/work great for place in Preston for under $400. We got aerodynamic roof racks and luggage carrier that allow us to still go camping despite losing our stationwagon.</p>
<p>Tyres:<br />
Okay, here is the good oil (saved!) thanks for Bridgestone’s website which said:</p>
<p>Contrary to popular belief, tyre pressure is not determined by the type of tyre or its size but upon your vehicle’s load and driving application i.e. speed</p>
<p>Take the “cold” reading and check them against the recommended tyre pressures from your placard. </p>
<p>Heavy loads or towing puts an extra strain on your tyres. So if your vehicle is fully loaded with passengers and luggage, the general rule is to add 28kpa (4PSI or 4lbs).</p>
<p>At high speed, (defined as driving at 120km/h for over one hour), your tyres will wear out twice as fast as when you drive at 70-80 km/h. If your tyres are under-inflated by twenty per cent tyre life can be reduced by thirty per cent.<br />
The rule here is to add 28Kpa (4PSI) from your Minimum Compliance Plate Pressure. Don’t inflate your tyres above 40 psi or 280 kPa. When the tyres get hot from driving, the pressure will increase even more.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, checking your tyre pressure can have a big impact on our environment. An under-inflated tyre creates more rolling resistance and therefore more fuel consumption. By keeping your tyres inflated to their proper levels, you can help maximise your car’s fuel economy and minimise its impact on our environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22778</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have owned a 2003 Civic Hybrid since March 2003. It has given me 116,000 miles with not a single problem. In warm weather I get about 45 mpg, a little less in the winter. I have no idea how a person could get only 31 mpg. I have no plans to sell the car so the proposed settlement does nothing for me - especially if I can&#039;t use the money for a new hybrid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have owned a 2003 Civic Hybrid since March 2003. It has given me 116,000 miles with not a single problem. In warm weather I get about 45 mpg, a little less in the winter. I have no idea how a person could get only 31 mpg. I have no plans to sell the car so the proposed settlement does nothing for me &#8211; especially if I can&#8217;t use the money for a new hybrid.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22777</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honda has delivered on its promise to me regarding milrage for my 2006 Civic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After 46,000 miles my mileage for mostly city driving is 47.9 mpg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I love my Civic.  Everything works just fine for me wiith no failings of any kind.  Our second car is a diesel 2005 Mercedes that gets a consistent 32.5 mpg in city driving.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wish Honda would have fouight this case against them.  They would have prevailed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am simply appalled that any thinking person could be suppportive of lawyers and rationionlize their evil work aginst corporations with class action lawsuits.  Theirs is a greed driven profession of taking from others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Honda&#039;s loss will increase their costs of doing business which will impact prices to future purchasers of their cars.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lawyers winning cases against small airplane manufacturers a few decades back virtually wiped out this market.  Most accidents occurred because of pilot error.  Most of the current costs of a small airplane is insurance related.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My hat is off to Honda and I have become a loyal owner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honda has delivered on its promise to me regarding milrage for my 2006 Civic.</p>
<p>After 46,000 miles my mileage for mostly city driving is 47.9 mpg.</p>
<p>I love my Civic.  Everything works just fine for me wiith no failings of any kind.  Our second car is a diesel 2005 Mercedes that gets a consistent 32.5 mpg in city driving.</p>
<p>I wish Honda would have fouight this case against them.  They would have prevailed.</p>
<p>I am simply appalled that any thinking person could be suppportive of lawyers and rationionlize their evil work aginst corporations with class action lawsuits.  Theirs is a greed driven profession of taking from others.</p>
<p>Honda&#8217;s loss will increase their costs of doing business which will impact prices to future purchasers of their cars.</p>
<p>Lawyers winning cases against small airplane manufacturers a few decades back virtually wiped out this market.  Most accidents occurred because of pilot error.  Most of the current costs of a small airplane is insurance related.</p>
<p>My hat is off to Honda and I have become a loyal owner.</p>
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		<title>By: gmtx2652</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22776</link>
		<dc:creator>gmtx2652</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a 2003 HCHI with CVT.  Agree with Robert Lord, mpg went down after purchasing Goodyear Assurance tires (Assurance Fuel Max tires weren&#039;t available in the required size).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve consistently bettered 40 mpg (2.5 gals per 100 miles).  Best was 56 mpg.  Normally around 50 mpg in summer driving 55 mph, low 40&#039;s driving 70 mph.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Had a Cavalier Z24 that did 30 mpg (3.3 gals per 100 miles).  Cobalt didn&#039;t do any better, so I got the Civic Hybrid instead.  Chevy Cruze and Volt will be interesting, along with next gen Civic.  Like the look of the Camaro, but 29 mpg?  At 30,000 plus miles per year....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a 2003 HCHI with CVT.  Agree with Robert Lord, mpg went down after purchasing Goodyear Assurance tires (Assurance Fuel Max tires weren&#8217;t available in the required size).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve consistently bettered 40 mpg (2.5 gals per 100 miles).  Best was 56 mpg.  Normally around 50 mpg in summer driving 55 mph, low 40&#8242;s driving 70 mph.</p>
<p>Had a Cavalier Z24 that did 30 mpg (3.3 gals per 100 miles).  Cobalt didn&#8217;t do any better, so I got the Civic Hybrid instead.  Chevy Cruze and Volt will be interesting, along with next gen Civic.  Like the look of the Camaro, but 29 mpg?  At 30,000 plus miles per year&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Civic hybrid</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22775</link>
		<dc:creator>Civic hybrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a 2003 and a 2006 Civic Hybrid owner, I can say that although the mileage most of the time is not what I would like (48-50 summer 40-44 winter is what I get) I am not getting the low mileage that the law suit is claiming. My 2003 was a standard trans. and I could get as much as 56-58 in the summer, but not all the time. I traded it because I like the 2006 body style. The 2006 I get abit lower mileage 48-50 in summer. This is mostly highway driving. If I was driving in the city all the time I am sure it would be lower. Yes I was expecting higher mileage, I like everything else on it. I will say that if I have the money right now I would think about buying the new Insight.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a 2003 and a 2006 Civic Hybrid owner, I can say that although the mileage most of the time is not what I would like (48-50 summer 40-44 winter is what I get) I am not getting the low mileage that the law suit is claiming. My 2003 was a standard trans. and I could get as much as 56-58 in the summer, but not all the time. I traded it because I like the 2006 body style. The 2006 I get abit lower mileage 48-50 in summer. This is mostly highway driving. If I was driving in the city all the time I am sure it would be lower. Yes I was expecting higher mileage, I like everything else on it. I will say that if I have the money right now I would think about buying the new Insight.  </p>
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		<title>By: Samie</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22774</link>
		<dc:creator>Samie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What if the lawyers received only 75k from this case?  Seems fair right? but if &quot;payouts&quot; are reduced, Honda would consider this as a business as usually fee and continue advertising misleading claims of mpgs. If there is little incentive to take on cases you can have greater abuses of power, which means if you are poor you may not be able to get anyone to hear your case.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t understand why when you have a lack of government protection for the people, you would want to strip the use of the legal system away the 3million seems unfair but actually acts as a balance to poor regulations/business interests and money does talk if it hurts businesses in their pockets.  This is not a popular position but it is true and people often take a moral position to this but rationally there is a need for these type of lawyers and the cases they take on.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the lawyers received only 75k from this case?  Seems fair right? but if &#8220;payouts&#8221; are reduced, Honda would consider this as a business as usually fee and continue advertising misleading claims of mpgs. If there is little incentive to take on cases you can have greater abuses of power, which means if you are poor you may not be able to get anyone to hear your case.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why when you have a lack of government protection for the people, you would want to strip the use of the legal system away the 3million seems unfair but actually acts as a balance to poor regulations/business interests and money does talk if it hurts businesses in their pockets.  This is not a popular position but it is true and people often take a moral position to this but rationally there is a need for these type of lawyers and the cases they take on.  </p>
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		<title>By: MK</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22773</link>
		<dc:creator>MK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AP states:  &quot;When I referred to the government making a mistake, I meant that the old EPA test method did a poor job of estimating real-world hybrid - even worse than for regular cars.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s funny...back when I bought my first two new vehicles in the 90&#039;s (before the updated EPA testing methodology), I typically exceeded EPA mileage estimates by 5-10%.  On my &#039;96 manual transmission Saturn SL1, I routinely exceeded 40 mpg even though the highway rating was &quot;only&quot; 36 mpg (Saturn...what did you do to your vehicles?!).  Same thing for my wife&#039;s &#039;93 Saturn SL.  I always considered EPA estimates to be biased low and never understood the uproar from the masses.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And I&#039;m happy to report that exceeding EPA gas mileage estimates has been relatively easy in our 2010 Prius.  Driver behavior is just so absolutely critical.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP states:  &#8220;When I referred to the government making a mistake, I meant that the old EPA test method did a poor job of estimating real-world hybrid &#8211; even worse than for regular cars.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny&#8230;back when I bought my first two new vehicles in the 90&#8242;s (before the updated EPA testing methodology), I typically exceeded EPA mileage estimates by 5-10%.  On my &#8217;96 manual transmission Saturn SL1, I routinely exceeded 40 mpg even though the highway rating was &#8220;only&#8221; 36 mpg (Saturn&#8230;what did you do to your vehicles?!).  Same thing for my wife&#8217;s &#8217;93 Saturn SL.  I always considered EPA estimates to be biased low and never understood the uproar from the masses.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m happy to report that exceeding EPA gas mileage estimates has been relatively easy in our 2010 Prius.  Driver behavior is just so absolutely critical.  </p>
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		<title>By: veek</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22772</link>
		<dc:creator>veek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Samie:  I completely disagree with your assessments on justice.  How can you infer Justice to a system which gives the trial lawyers nearly $3 million and the plaintiffs (who were allegedly the ones wronged) about one percent of that figure?  And how can you imply that Honda is guilty because they seem to admit having made a technical mistake?? Oh, come now! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Everyone loses in a system such as this, including our sense of justice and fairness. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samie:  I completely disagree with your assessments on justice.  How can you infer Justice to a system which gives the trial lawyers nearly $3 million and the plaintiffs (who were allegedly the ones wronged) about one percent of that figure?  And how can you imply that Honda is guilty because they seem to admit having made a technical mistake?? Oh, come now! </p>
<p>Everyone loses in a system such as this, including our sense of justice and fairness. </p>
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		<title>By: Rex_Snow</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22771</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex_Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I feel very, very strongly on this issue.  I have 2005 HCH with over 80,000 miles on it.  I have used it for commuting from San Antonio, TX to San Marcos, TX, Austin, Houston, and a twice to Florida.  I have also used my HCH for city driving within San Antonio, not only for commuting, but for use as a delivery vehicle while working as a delivery man for Domino&#039;s Pizza and Jason&#039;s Deli.  And I have this to say:  my average has consistently been, since I acquired my vehicle in 2006, 45mpg.  The worst I have ever gotten on a single tank was 42mpg, and that was on the rugged streets of San Marcos, TX.  I have on rare occasion gotten the EPA listed 47-48mpg, and that was expectedly under the most favorable conditions.  I love my car and it is the best vehicle I have ever driven!  If you cannot and have not gotten mileage in the 40 mpg range, then that is on you.  I absolutely hate that people have lead-foots and no understanding of how to properly operate a motor vehicle safely and efficiently and then blame the manufacturer for their own deficiencies!  If you vehicle HCH cannot get 40+mpg, then there is something wrong with it and it is a mechanical or electrical problem.  But if it can and does not, then that is on the driver or drivers.  Operator error can easily lead to poor fuel economy.  Learn to drive effectively, maintain your car, and enjoy the fuel you save with a hybrid!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel very, very strongly on this issue.  I have 2005 HCH with over 80,000 miles on it.  I have used it for commuting from San Antonio, TX to San Marcos, TX, Austin, Houston, and a twice to Florida.  I have also used my HCH for city driving within San Antonio, not only for commuting, but for use as a delivery vehicle while working as a delivery man for Domino&#8217;s Pizza and Jason&#8217;s Deli.  And I have this to say:  my average has consistently been, since I acquired my vehicle in 2006, 45mpg.  The worst I have ever gotten on a single tank was 42mpg, and that was on the rugged streets of San Marcos, TX.  I have on rare occasion gotten the EPA listed 47-48mpg, and that was expectedly under the most favorable conditions.  I love my car and it is the best vehicle I have ever driven!  If you cannot and have not gotten mileage in the 40 mpg range, then that is on you.  I absolutely hate that people have lead-foots and no understanding of how to properly operate a motor vehicle safely and efficiently and then blame the manufacturer for their own deficiencies!  If you vehicle HCH cannot get 40+mpg, then there is something wrong with it and it is a mechanical or electrical problem.  But if it can and does not, then that is on the driver or drivers.  Operator error can easily lead to poor fuel economy.  Learn to drive effectively, maintain your car, and enjoy the fuel you save with a hybrid!</p>
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		<title>By: Samie</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/civic-hybrid-mileage-brouhaha-continues-26296/#comment-22770</link>
		<dc:creator>Samie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=6349#comment-22770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure I can agree with Lost Prius to wife  and ex-EV1 driver on this.  No it is not a crime that Honda lost this case but they are liable.  So if government does not provide consumers with basic product knowledge and safety information does it make it right for big business to ignore the real world problems of a product, false advertising, or overstating what they know is not true?  To say Honda may or may have not known that the EPA overestimates mpgs is silly they knew, so does everyone else.  The car lobbying group for years has lobbied to keep mpgs inflated and everyone knows that most of the time the EPA ratings do not reflect real world results.  The marketing department at Honda overstretched that is why they lost the case.  Look I don&#039;t like much of the litigation practices in America and we would be better off having independent third party arbitrators handle more disputes but without this case, the failure of government aided on by the car manufactures would go on forever as politicians don&#039;t want to do the dirty work of going against their funders or the threat of  losing more manufacturing jobs.  Also it takes big bucks to sue someone in America and the everyday Joe does not have the resources to go up against someone like Honda or GM that is why to some degree class-action lawsuits are needed but the downside is the cost of products and services that are high due to increased insurance premiums.  My point is that lawsuits are needed when government fails to provide accurate information to consumers Without being able to challenge businesses and hurt them in the pocket, much of our basic consumer safety protections would be eroded.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I can agree with Lost Prius to wife  and ex-EV1 driver on this.  No it is not a crime that Honda lost this case but they are liable.  So if government does not provide consumers with basic product knowledge and safety information does it make it right for big business to ignore the real world problems of a product, false advertising, or overstating what they know is not true?  To say Honda may or may have not known that the EPA overestimates mpgs is silly they knew, so does everyone else.  The car lobbying group for years has lobbied to keep mpgs inflated and everyone knows that most of the time the EPA ratings do not reflect real world results.  The marketing department at Honda overstretched that is why they lost the case.  Look I don&#8217;t like much of the litigation practices in America and we would be better off having independent third party arbitrators handle more disputes but without this case, the failure of government aided on by the car manufactures would go on forever as politicians don&#8217;t want to do the dirty work of going against their funders or the threat of  losing more manufacturing jobs.  Also it takes big bucks to sue someone in America and the everyday Joe does not have the resources to go up against someone like Honda or GM that is why to some degree class-action lawsuits are needed but the downside is the cost of products and services that are high due to increased insurance premiums.  My point is that lawsuits are needed when government fails to provide accurate information to consumers Without being able to challenge businesses and hurt them in the pocket, much of our basic consumer safety protections would be eroded.  </p>
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