Chevy Volt No Longer an 'Electric Camaro'

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Volt Wind Test

Photo: GM-VOLT.com

More revealing, a wind tunnel demonstration used a third-scale model of the Volt, covered in patterned camouflage tape. Low aerodynamic drag is key to extending the Volt’s range—at speed, it’s more important than lower weight, due to aggressive regenerative braking that recaptures energy for recharging. To show the airflow, an aerodynamics expert wielded a hose that sent propylene glycol mist swirling over the scale model as a 30-mph wind roared.

If these models are indicative—Boniface said at the time, “the body’s not frozen yet, but it’s close”—the production Volt is shorter and stubbier than the concept. The front wheels are just ahead of the doors, with a long overhang and a very steeply angled windshield. Its Kamm tail is an abrupt vertical behind the rear wheels, with a high hatchback. The smooth, rounded, swept front has a remarkable resemblance to current Saabs.

Overall, the shape somewhat resembles another aerodynamic five-door with a battery pack. Yes: The shape of the Volt may just end up somewhat like a… Toyota Prius.

The Cd of the Prius, by the way, is 0.26. There’s your number to beat, Mr. Boniface.


  • kerry bradshaw

    The Volt team certainly has no desire to make the Volt even mildly similar to the baby buggy wheeled Prius monstrosity, cd or no cd.
    As it is the Volt will use 12th the gasoline the gas guzzling ineffiicent Prius uses commuting and even less in various other driving regimens (seniors, housewives). The Volt has no need to worry about the Prius – that car’s days are numbered, as even Toyota admitted. Eventually you have to build a car that people actually want to own, not just one that allows smaller gas bills.

  • Andrew Hime

    Wow, wish I were capable of such unbridled optimism.

  • Peter Vernon

    kerry bradshaw implies that the Prius’s days are numbered and is so ugly that most people do not want to own it. Gee. That must explain why would-be Prius owners must go on a waiting list once again!

  • Cameron Baron

    Well ofcourse if the Volt is stylish and outperforms the Prius than it will be succesful. Even if that happens saying that the Prius will be obsolete is a suspesct argument. Not everyone cares about styling. For them a practical efficient car is enough.

    Chances are though that the Volt will be rather ordinary looking in order to achieve a sub .30 DC rating.

  • Prius Driver

    Kerry Bradshaw sure has a negative view about the Prius, which is one of the most sought after cars in the US right now.

    Sensitive Hummer driver or something? Paying to much at the pump? Oh well.

    I’m sure that when the Prius comes out with a plug in option their sales wont go down. In the real world, their sales will only go up. I’ll buy a Plug in Prius… put me on the waiting list. However, I could be swayed over to a Chevy Volt “IF” the electric car killers at GM come up with a better plug in option and actually sell it to people vs lease it like they did with the EV1. Hmm GM, sell an Electric Car – hope they can figure it out. Such a crazy idea it just might work.

    I for one would like it if GM builds the Volt. It would give customers a great alternative to the Prius.
    I won’t hold my breath for GM to make the volt though. After the blackeye they gave themselves for creating the EV1 and leading the sickening freak show campaign to crush every electric car… color me skeptical of GM.
    Not that Toyoto’s leadership isn’t a bunch of Oily Rats for killing the Electric Rav 4 program, they are.

    Come on GM, give us electric car buyers a reason to buy an American Car.

  • Armand

    KERRY BRADSHAW:

    The difference between the Volt and Prius is that the Pruis EXISTS. It’s going to be on it’s THIRD ITERATION. Where’s the Volt? Oh yes…it doesn’t exist.

    Hmmmm….bitter GM owner are you? Or just dumb patriotic nationalist?

    You idiots have no one to blame but yourselves. That’s what you deserve for wanting to drive around in your freaking living rooms on 4 wheels.

    As for the Volt’s looks….please tell me what looks good about that ugly flattened version of a freaking batmobile.

  • Bryce

    Better looking
    less gas used (nearly none for most people)
    more horse power
    no more dependence on foreign oil (in fact, not much dependence on anyone’s oil

    sounds pretty good to me

    It is kinda weird that so many people on this site bash the first electric car to come to market brought on by a major automaker and not some futureless startup that produces 2 seaters ridiculously priced where as no one but movie stars will buy one. And, of all people, there hated GM. I would think they would appreciate a change of direction.

  • Bryce

    Also, not to burst your plug in prius bubble, but that vehicle that will be “released” in 2010 will be in extremely small numbers, rented out and not sold, and does not function entirely under an electric drivetrain. (it is still a parallel hybrid, just with more energy to be used for a possibly larger engine) That doesn’t sound very different to me….in fact, I believe the 2009 Saturn Vue plug-in will offer that exact same thing…..and the Ford escape plug in……and all electric vehicles from Nissan and Honda. In fact, I kinda think Toyota is lagging behind relative to all of their competitors. Honda will have 2 more hybrids within a year or two. Chrysler is coming out with a few. GM is coming out with 10 more in 2 years and a new small economy car that gets 40 mpg. (think restyled Aveo with 1.2 liter turbo charger) Nissan will be developing its own hybrid drivetrain so that they dont have to pay Toyota for the use of their patents. All the while, Toyota wil do a redesign, possibly one more hybrid truck, and release a plug in. (again, in extremely low numbers and for lease only) So 3ish hybrids versus 15-20. Tough odds

  • Future Volt Owner

    I think the Volt is going to be awesome. Up to 150 mpg. Maybe 0-60 mph acceleration of 7-8 seconds. Cool looking exterior and interior.

    With 40-50 miles of all electric range, a LOT of people might only be filling up their gas tanks with gasoline (or better yet, cellulosic ethanol) about 5 times a YEAR. Most people fill up about twice a month with the 15-25 mpg gas guzzlers out there today. Hmmm …. do I want to fill up 24+ times a year or 5 times a year? And gasoline could be $6-10 a gallon gas by 2011 for all we know! Decisions. Decisions.

    I have no doubt that the costs of the batteries are going to go down too once they build the new battery factories. The batteries will be like HDTVs … expensive at first but they’ll drop in price once the huge factories are built and competition kicks in. By 2013 or whatever, I bet you’ll probably be able to trade in your original Volt battery for a “new and improved” one that is CHEAPER and gives you more all electric range too.

    The Chevy Volt is going to be a revolutionary car. It’ll usher in the “age of the electric car” and signal the decline of the internal combustion engine and the addiction to the expensive, and polluting oil that goes with it.

  • jwo7777777

    Oh, my! Such optimism! That’s GREAT!

    “… Cats and dogs … living together …”

    I have the sudden urge to kiss my wife … gotta go!

  • Skeptic

    OK, leaving aside that the whole thing is vaporware, it’s CAMARO not CAMERO.

    Are the editors not quite up to the task???

  • Bert
  • CardInAustin

    As a previous poster mentioned, there is one HUGE difference between the Volt and the Prius. The Prius exists! Right now….on the lot….you can go buy one and it will perform as promised. The Volt changes its stripes on a weekly basis. Funny how they pump this cool aggressive body style for over a year and then quietly say….oohhhhhh yeeeaaahhhh, about that whole “camaro look”, we can’t pull that off. It will probably look a lot more like the Prius. Really? Well isn’t that ironic.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am ALL for the Volt kicking a*s and very soon. I would love to buy one. Problem is that it does not exist yet, and I won’t believe the hype until I see one on the showroom floor.

    So please spare the trash talking until GM has delivered something.

  • DC

    Do you mean Camaro?

  • Old Bald Guy

    With people like the first person in this column posting their (poorly written) thoughts here, it is easy to see just how polarized this issue is. Some comments are total venom about the Prius. ???

    Two things to consider here for me.
    ONE The Prius has been in production for over 10 YEARS and has been in the US for about 8 of those years.

    TWO The Volt has been talked about and promised for awhile … but IS NOT YET AVAILABLE …

    I am just as ready as many other people to actually see a Volt … drive a Volt … perhaps own a Volt. IN THE MEANTIME … I have parked my 17 MPG SUV and bought (and drive) a 51+ MPG Prius. (yes it DOES get 51+ MPG and, yes, my gain is 3 times the mileage)

    Admittedly, my Prius doesn’t handle like a Mini … but then I didn’t buy a Mini. And it won’t burn rubber like a Viper … but then I didn’t buy a Viper either. BUT MY PRIUS DOEN’T BURN GAS LIKE A HUMMER EITHER.

    To you people who seem to have such a bad attitude about the Prius … ????? GET OVER IT!!!

    You don’t like how it looks … so what? The car works! GET OVER IT!!!

    So it doesn’t get 200 MPG … so what? Neither does anything else available that I can buy today from any major car maker. GET OVER IT!!!

    When a major car maker actually comes up with … and produces … something better than my Prius, then I will look at it and maybe buy it. In the meantime, to you people with the “pee in your Cheerios attitudes”

    GET OVER IT!!!

  • AP

    How can anyone who’s seen a car before look at the aero model (a short, wide, tall car) and say it looks like a Prius (a long, NARROW, tall car)? I guess it does have four tires – and a windshield. You could sooner have said it looks like a BMW – or anything – but a Prius? There is some non-objective journalism, implying someone is copying something when they’e not.

    The current Prius is a weak, “Woody Allen” looking car. I don’t get the feeling the Volt will be.

    Of all cars, the Prius?

  • Bryce

    I am not bashing the Prius. I am simply saying it is old technology. (imagine that….the prius…..old tech…wow) But seriously. This drive train will seem quite primitive when the Volt (or any electric car) comes out. The little Prius engine provides barely 100 hp for a hatchback sized car….while the Volt provides 160 hp and instantaneous torque, for a coupe. (a hatchback sized vehicle should probably have atleast 175 hp, but a coupe can usually get away with 140 and still be quite peppy……so one is overpowered and one underpowered)

    Also, I read about a year ago that the body was going to be redesigned cuz when they put it in the windtunnel, it performed pretty bad. So they changed it. Now (according to Bob Lutz) it has a lower coefficient of drag than the Prius. When u think of the design, think stockier Vette. Weird for an electric/hybrid vehicle, huh? That dip on the hood sides is very aerodynamic and the sharp drop off at the back provides for a bit of a turbulence field behind the vehicle, which again improves aerodynamics. So, instead of a little Camaro clone everyone, it will be more live a Vette clone…….sounds pretty nice to me. (and no where has anyone said that the Volt is going to cost 48k+++)

    So again, I will say this…..

    Better looking (looks like a Vette)
    Better performance (100hp underpowered vs 160hp overpowered)
    Better fuel economy (40-50mpg vs 0 gas at all….worst case scenario 60-150mpg)

    sounds pretty good to me

    you can check all this stuff out at gm-volt.com
    (it is not run by GM, but a fellow who is always pestering GM product line directors for the VOlt and CEOs and whatnot to make sure they bring the car to production)

  • TD

    >Better looking (looks like a Vette)
    >Better performance (100hp underpowered vs 160h overpowered)
    >Better fuel economy (40-50mpg vs 0 gas at all….worst case scenario 60-150mpg)

    It doesn’t exist yet so all of these stats are just conjecture. When you can actually buy one it will be real cool, but I’m not holding my breath.

  • Bryce

    Well, since that seems to be everyone’s sticking point production has already been announced by the GM board and they have allocated the resources. It will be build in Detroit and released in small numbers at the end of 2010 with production ramping up in 2011.

    Besides, the mule vehicles with the drivetrain and the batteries already have been road tested in an 05 Malibu, so the stats are solid. As for the look…..anything could be better than a wedge of cheese.

  • Black Ice

    There is better hope for man to walk on Mars, than Chevy finalizing the Volt.

  • Noz

    BRYCE:

    Old technology in the Pruis? Perhaps it’s been out for a while but guess what…it’s more seamless in function than any car GM makes…IC or electric.

    The drivetrain is so smooth and the transitions from electric to motor to full assist are so well done, GM could only wish it can make anything that good, past, present, or future.

    Let’s stop with this ridiculousness about how the VOLT – a product that is Vaporware – is so much better than a product that exists right now, is seemless in fucntion, and is more reliable than ANY GM product currently available…a true slap in the face if you ask me.

    You want “instantaneous torque? How about 295ft-lbs from the Pruis? Isn’t that instantaneous torque to get you off the line? And probably about 150-160ft-lbs continous? It’s got room for 4, lot’s of legroom, carrying capacity, is comfortable, is quite, is safe. Do you think for a moment if Toyota wanted to make a sporty, 2 seat coupe hybrid they couldn’t? And wouldn’t do it better and quicker than GM?

    Some of you here are a bunch of GM apologists….probably the same types of people who also support stupid wars and illegal invasions and fascist governments like what we have now…and you support such things without any basis whatsoever…it’s just so.

    Why would you support companies that have been producing sh&t since they started and hardly ever improved? What logic do you people use to hold such high regard and loyalty to such crap?

    It’s funny…you guys are so desperate that you keep comparing this NEW Volt to an already dated car that’s still performing strong. It’s almost like saying a 2008 VW GTI is better than a 1998 GTI, pollutes less, is faster, and handles better…no sh8t…what a surprise.

    GM is shooting in the dark with the Volt…they have no clue how good the new 3rd generation Pruis is going to be NOR do they know what companies like Honda have up their sleeves in the next coming year or 2. But what they do know is that they are so far behind, that even if the Volt hits the road, it’s going to already be outdated and outperformed.

    But even then, just based on principle, I’d never support GM given how screwed up they are and how they were, for years and years, pushing gas-guzzling piles of sh6t on us…knowing full well to what extent the consequences to would be in a nation like this where people are to dumb to think for themselves and think driving around in a fking living room on 4 wheels will “bring the family together” bullsh*t.

    It’s sickening.

  • CardInAustin

    >Better looking (looks like a Vette)
    >Better performance (100hp underpowered vs 160h overpowered)
    >Better fuel economy (40-50mpg vs 0 gas at all….worst case scenario 60-150mpg)

    That is great. I really really hope that it gets built and is everything that they promise and more. But come on now….how many cars do you know about that have numerous commercials aired during major events almost THREE YEARS before they are available for purchase (assuming that it is actually available in 2010). Plus, do you really want to compare the track record of GM’s commitment to such technology to that of Toyota? Or even Honda? (hint: say “no”).

    If you count current R&D projects for GM, then why don’t we look in the pipeline and the lab for Honda and Toyota as well. Or is that not fair?

    GM behavior and track record are the reason some of us are skeptical. If the Volt did everything it promised and was available for sale I would buy one….today….right now. I would drive down to the dealership and buy it. But it doesn’t exist, and b/c of GM’s history I remain skeptical until I see it on the lot for sale.

    Oh yeah….I can’t sit around and wait for GM to get their shiznit together. If Toyota’s 3rd gen Prius or possible hybrid-x comes out next year it will probably be my next car.

  • Shines

    Kerry, Bryce, Future Volt owner;
    Ah hope springs eternal. I sure hope the Volt is as good as you think it will be.
    Don’t want to burst anybody’s bubble (actaully I do ;-) but
    I just reviewed the info on Chevy’s site. The Volt will arrive in limited production LATE 2010. That puts it over 2.5 years away! Toyota has announced the next Prius will be available January 2009. Even if it is delayed a year to get LI batteries and plug in it would still be out before the Volt. Even if it comes out in limited number and lease only in 2010 and full production in 2011 – that would be the same as the Volt.
    Honda is bringing back the Insight in a form that will probably compete well against the Volt.
    I like the idea of lots of competition and more choices. I suppose you can bash the Prius right now, since it is in production and is the standard to beat.
    Oh – by the way, the Volt is a hybrid – after 40 miles (or sooner if you forget to plug it in every night) a gasoline engine will kick in to extend the Volt’s range. We’ll see how revolutionary this is in 2011 when it supposedly will be available to anyone.
    In the mean time let us enjoy driving with $4.20+ + fuel prices.

  • ex-EV1 driver

    Hey folks, this bashing isn’t necessary.
    In order to greatly improve the Cd, the body will have to lean towards the laws of aerodynamics, not aesthetics.
    I have to disagree that the paltry .26 Cd of the Prius is the one to beat. If you want to go for the ultimate, the EV1 had a Cd of .19!
    The big decision will have to be form versus function. The EV1 had a nearly optimal design for aerodynamics but it paid a price: The rear wheels were closer together than the front ones in order to allow for the teardrop shape. This meant you couldn’t take it through a normal tire slot car wash. Also, the front window was huge and curved, thus making the glass design tricky to maintain optical consistency. Of course it was GM that designed the EV1 so they clearly have the technical ability to do what it takes to make the Volt a great car like the EV1.
    The questions still remain: Will they do it again? Will they let it live this next time?

  • Bryce

    Hmm, I didn’t want to make u mad Noz. U seem to feel very ardently against anything GM. That is fair I suppose, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, my family has had the same Chevy vehicle for the past 10 years, and never ever have we had any problem. Sounds pretty reliable to me.

    As for gas guzzling SUVs, GM’s fleet of SUVs tends to be more efficient than their competitors larger SUVs. Also, have u seen the vehicles Toyota has been punhing out lately. THEY ARE HUGE. Puts ole Suburbans and Excursions to shame. (in size anyways) Those sequoias are huge and so are the Tundra trucks. That sounds like they are doing the same exact thing as GM, and every other automaker……um….because the are players in a market system and they provide to consumers what they want. Demand for larger vehicles has been down and is anticipated to stay down, so they are retooling their factories to maximize production of those vehicles which the market is now optimized for. It will take time, (about 12-18 months) but that is just the way it is.

    As in the way of reliability and quality, the Camry finished dead last in a quality assesment by Edmunds against the Honda Accord and the CHevy Malibu. (1. Accord 2. Malibu 3. Camry) Edmunds noted a lowering of standards on the interior for the Camry’s drop in quality ratings. This while the Accord and Malibu interiors have greatly improved coupled with beautifully remodeled exteriors. So Honda is beating Toyota in quality ratings…wow, one would never think it possible. But here it is. Toyota is a GM clone, just Japanese. Everytime u bash GM, I can simply throw it back in your face cuz TOyota does the same exact things. Not that there is anything wrong with that. They are completely entitled to do as they please because we live and work in a free market that allows for consumer optimization. It is the way of the world and you my friend, should move beyond a ridiculous loyalty that relies on experiences from cars 20-30 years ago.

    Finally, I would appreciate it if u kept it G rated. It is really not necessary for u to INTERNET YELL AT ME. You can get your point accross perfectly fine just by voicing it here on this website. We disagree, and that is fine. I hope I have not ruined your day or flustered you to the point that u take it out on someone innocent. : )

  • Bryce

    wow, in the time it took me to write the response to Noz, 3 more posts came up. This seems to be a heated topic. yea, the EV1 had the best coefficient of drag in history. Very impressive. Now I do believe it will it will be bigger tougher, and have greater range than the EV1. It will also seat 4, not 2, as some have speculated earlier. Thank you everyone else for disagreeing in an agreeable fashion. It makes us all seem that much more intelligent. :)

  • Curt

    Bryce, you’re either naive or baised. You state, “Better looking (looks like a Vette)”. How on Earth can you make this claim when GM continues to say the body will have to be redesigned. Until you see the production version, it doesn’t look like anything yet. To make a fair comparison, you should wait until Jan ’09 to see what the new Prius has to offer.

    I’m just glad to see more emphasis on PLEV technology. For those interested, looked at what ZENN has in store for early 2009. If, big if, their partnership with EEStor pays off, they will put all PLEV and hybrids to shame. An all-electric would be great, then we can focus on building out the grid to power them all. :-)

    FWIW, I don’t care any longer if the Big 3 get it right any longer. I used to be very “buy American” until it became obvious the Big 3 couldn’t think about the future whereas Honda & Toyota have. I now own a Honda Odyssey, and the next car purchase will likely be a Toyota in a few years (waiting for their PLEV models). *IF* the Big 3 can catch up before going bankrupt, then I’ll consider them at that time. They have focused on hp instead of mpg for too long. One has to wonder how much influence the oil industry has had on them.

  • steved28

    Why do people insist on calling the Volt an “electric car”? It’s a PHEV, period. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • Bryce

    Well, I guess I will say this again. The Vette look I am talking about is not the model that GM has been toting around for the last few months. That one looks more like a wannabe Camaro. (as the title of this article implies) To improve aerodynamics, the VOlt is likely to take a few design ques from the Vette such as the sweeping hood design and the steep falloff in the back end, both of which lower the coefficient of drag. Here are some covered models and a windtunnel picture for u.

    http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/album/72157603653293621/photo/2388136836/Chevy-Volt-Production-Volt-13-Model-side-2.html

    http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/album/72157603653293621/photo/2388136862/Chevy-Volt-Production-Volt-13-Model-front-1.html

    http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/album/72157603653293621/photo/2428250369/Chevy-Volt-Volt-Aero-image.html

    I am not naive and not really biased considering I have never bought a new car myself from any company. I have done tons of research, and I really admire the car. There is nothing wrong with the Prius and I am sure there are those who enjoy its unique qualities more than a production Volt, but I personally would prefer the Volt with its better design, fuel economy, and power. If you are going to be critical of me, please read my entire post so you can do so accurately.

  • steved28

    “but I personally would prefer the Volt with its better design, fuel economy, and power”

    The design is not finished.
    We really don’t know what the fuel economy will be, nor the power.
    And you left out cost.

  • Bryce

    again, like I said earlier, design can be gleaned from leaked photos. Fuel economy and range have already been established with running mules and power is not a challenge. All that is is putting the right size engine in. Price indeed is the one final stickler. That is the one thing, that if u ask anyone on gm-volt.com, they are all wondering. It should be interesting to see once the revamped version comes out. : )

  • steved28

    Bryce, When I say “design”, I mean the entire car, including the drivetrain. I don’t mean a fuzzy picture of a clay model. How can a mule prove out anything when the body is just a clay model? They haven’t completed the undercarriage yet as far as I’ve read. You are toting fuel mileage, but in your own post you admit they haven’t chosen the engine yet. “power is not a challenge. All that is is putting the right size engine in”. Which directly effects fuel mileage!

    Bottom line is no one has any right toting lines like “great power, great fuel economy” etc. because no one really knows at this point. Power comes at the cost of range and fuel economy. Range comes at the cost of power. Fuel economy comes at the cost of the other two. Come back to me when you (or GM) has some real numbers in a real car.

  • StevenK

    It’s encouraging that GM is making such an effort. Even if it fails to meet its goals, the effort will bring the day when we can purchase affordable, practical electric cars closer. One technology that is on the horizon is batteries based nano technology. These batteries can hold at least five times as much charge. Solar panels are also becoming cheaper. You could create electricity from the sun as you drive to extend range. Lots of innovative ideas are possible. I’m really hoping the Volt will be stylish, as well. The EV-1 was quite attractive, really, so I’m hoping the Volt won’t look like an econobox.

    I predict that when electric cars and better hybrids start hitting the market, the price of oil and gas will magically sink as those with a stake in an oil-based economy try to hold on to market share.

  • Charles Hall

    Why don’t they just use the body style of those EV1 electric cars then sent to the cruncher? THAT was a swift-looking car. I don’t recall the numbers, but those designers were all about being slippery.

  • Charles Hall

    Just looked it up, the EV-1 has a drag coefficient of 0.19

  • Old Bald Guy

    To Kerry Bradshaw on your comments …

    Your comment on “the gas guzzling ineffiicent Prius ” …

    Compared to what? My 2008 Prius is averaging 52 MPG on a 50 mile commute … and there are not many new cars available today in the USA in that range.

    And don’t tell me you are comparing it to the Volt … the Volt, at the present moment, DOES NOT YET EXIST ….

    Also, just because YOU have some kind of a vendetta against the Prius … “Prius monstrosity” … “Eventually you have to build a car that people actually want to own, not just one that allows smaller gas bills.” doesn’t mean that millions of other people have your problem.

    The Volt may someday actually be built and it may be a great car. And, if it is as good as some of the hype, I might want to own one. BUT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, I am saving over $200 a month on gas (@ $3.50 a gallon price) WHILE I AM WAITING for what tomorrow may bring.

  • Bryce

    $3.50 a gallon…..geez….where do u live that allows for such cheap gas.

    O, it is 1 million purchases……..not millions…..which is plural. : )

    I think all Mr. Kerry Bradshaw was getting at was that if a car that looked like a sports car or a truck and got similar mileage, it would probably be exactly what a consumer would purchase on the open market. Why not have style, performance, and fuel economy. There are ways of doing it, including hybrid, diesels, and turbocharged engines. : )

  • truth.org

    Chevy is in bed with the oil companies. This buzz about the volt is sham. The saturn division of GM had an electric car a long time ago but they trashed it because people wanted to buy it. Make my next a japanese. Tired of these crooked so called patriotic auto makers making the american citizen look like a fool.

  • Bryce

    lol, that vehicle you speak of would have cost an individual 80k

    Not at all reasonable

  • Old Bald Guy

    To Bryce

    $3.50 a gallon is what it was when I bought my Prius … and my $200 a month saving is figured on that amount … of course, now the savings (compared to my SUV) is higher …

    And I meant millions … plural …. Add the million who already have a Prius and add to that the people who want one and are on the waiting list …

    I think what Mr. Kerry Bradshaw was getting at was exactly what he said “Prius monstrosity” and “gas guzzling ineffiicent Prius” “Eventually you have to build a car that people actually want to own,” … his words, not mine.

    My “monstrosity” is NOT “gas guzzling” or “inefficient”. And, since there are over a million Prius owners out there and a lot more owner wannabes, sounds like “a car that people actually want to own”.

    The car works. If you had one, you would know that.

  • jerome

    Some points here:

    #1 – the pics posted by Bryce are old – from before the announced redesign.

    #2 – if it is redesigned and looks like a vette why would any one down-size to a sports car? You need a car that seats four

    #3 – EV1 – if Chevy wanted to be serious they could be “retooling” and cranking out EV1′s by year end …. but they aren’t.

    #4 – anyone (ANYONE) who thinks the prius is not desired is a fool. Is it the end all be all of cars? No – but then again even Henry Ford thought of cars as an efficient way to get produce to market for small family farmers. Not a way to get around in daily life.

    #5 – if (all caps shouting IF) the volt ever sees the light of day in 2010 I will be shocked and I will apologize here.

    #6 – The volt is not electric – it is basically a hybrid Camry with a longer more powerful electric range. I suppose if Toyota was a sham company like GM (as asserted by Bryce) then they could trumpet the Prius and Camry as electric cars.

    #7 – By the time the volt hybrid rolls into production there are plans by 4 (yes FOUR) foreign companies to have full plug in electric vehicles that have no ICE…..

    #8 – so what we have here is a promised hybrid that will come to market a step behind its competitors…. any wonder why GM is falling behind?

    #9 – I second Bryce’s comment on keeping this G rated. discussions like this are important and available to all ranges of folks.

    #10 – no point here just wanted a #10 – like I wanted a good American Hybrid – sadly I got the 10 but not the hybrid!

  • Shines

    Some additional random comments.
    truth.org – GM isn’t in bed with oil companies – ICEs are easy to build, relatively inexpensive, a proven formula and relatively reliable. It isn’t about using oil – after all most ICEs are now flex fuel. Of course oil companies want car companies to use oil. If I were a dairy farmer I’d want grocery stores to sell cows milk not soy milk – that doesn’t mean I’m in bed with the grocery stores. Geeze truth – YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!! — ;-)
    Ex-EV1/Charles – Um I looked at the EV1 I don’t think it looks that good. Low coefficient of drag yes – looks like a bean on wheels.
    I don’t think the Prius is that good looking either, but then neither was the VW Beetle. From what I could see in the images links that Bryce provided – the Volt looks pretty typical. I don’t know how you can determine it looks any better than the Prius.
    I am just glad and excited that we are seeing more efficient alternatives being developed.

  • Bryce

    I don’t recall ever saying Toyota was a “sham” company…..quite to the contrary, they produce quality vehicles. I also think it is silly to be so unbelieving when plan to produce the Volt and other hybrid vehicles. How do u think they are going to match the new CAFE standards. By building these new vehicles. It is just necessary in the new market and they will do it because they have to.

    By the way, retooling a factory alone can take 12-18 months. So designing a car to fit in there would take even longer. GM is moving as fast as it can on the vehicles that it is putting out there. A 3 year drawing board to production vehicle is pretty unheard of and pretty impressive. I would say congratulations, but I am pretty sure that a bunch of people would jump on me and start yelling.

    On that note. Please stop producing things that I supposedly said.

    O, and those pictures are from during the redesign process, not before. That is why it is in a wind tunnel. It is being “designed” and tested. : )

  • Bryce

    Except of course for this years Camry. It is pretty sad that it lost out to a Honda and a Chevy car. So I guess that particular vehicle by Toyota I am not happy with.

  • CardInAustin

    Bryce,

    With all due respect, I see very little similarity between the pictures you posted and a Vette. It looks way more like a Malibu or a Cavalier.

    Also, I hate to be cynical, but you don’t suppose that they purposely picked a really slick aggressive future Camaro body style to pump up their ads….do you? Or was that an accident? I mean, most cars have advertisements during major TV events three years before they are released….right?

    Or am I just being cynical?

    Once again, if they make it and it does what it claims to do for a decent price I will buy one. If they don’t….or it takes them till half-past forever to release it….forget it.

  • stefanrw

    let me remind everybody what GM’s boss Bob Lutz (and still current) said about hybrid vehicules (prius) in general: “they are an interesting curiosity” …. yeah Bob until you are fired GM doesn’t mean … let me stoop here.

    GM are playing catch up… oh geeezz … “I guess we got to get in there!”

  • Bryce

    Bob Lutz is known for disdainful remarks against Japanese automakers, Toyota in particular. However, he is the one who pushed for the Volt the strongest, so maybe firing him would not be in the best interest of all the hybrid lovers here.

    Also, I didn’t say it would look just like a vette, but would have 2 design ques similar to that of a vette to improve aerodynamics which is the step drop off of the back end (which can be seen in the windtunnel shots) and the curved drop in the hood, which is harder to see with the car cammo on.

  • jerome

    QUOTE: O, and those pictures are from during the redesign process, not before. That is why it is in a wind tunnel. It is being “designed” and tested. : )

    Those pictures are from april – the redesign started in May…. those pics are old.

    Sorry if I misquoted you – but the point is still the same – someone said something along the lines of Toyota is a lesser car company because it too builds large vehicles and not just hybrids….

    QUOTE: A 3 year drawing board to production vehicle is pretty unheard of and pretty impressive.
    NOTE: GM did not need a full drawing board to production – they OWN all the rights and parts to the EV1.

    Also = you proved my point for me Bryce – if a typical factory re-tool is 12-18 months – and the Volt has been advertised for 3+years now then we could have had two years worth of volts running around. Or in a stroke of genius – ONE YEAR released right as oil hit its peak! No if GM was serious about being green and getting an electric car into the hands of people who NEED IT and being an innovative car company they would have the EV2 on he streets right now….

    NOW – I am not anti-GM but I AM anti-VAPORWARE and right now the Volt is 2 things – a sham electric car and VAPOR WARE. Like I said – I wanted to buy an American made hybrid – Ford and Mercury salesmen still have my card so I can test drive their hybrid SUV – still no calls – though I did get an e-mail from one who can make me a heck of a deal on a non-hybrid SUV….

  • Nicst47

    Chevy Volt a reality? I’ll believe it when I see it! I don’t believe for a second that GM has any intention to build a car with high fuel efficiency.
    While Honda has announced plans to build 3 more hybrids and Toyota has plans for a hybrid pick-up as well as a plug-in Prius, is this too little, too late?
    What is sad also is Ford limiting production of it’s Escape and Mariner hybrid SUV’s. They have increased production of gas (guzzling) Escapes and Mariners, while holding down production of their hybrid counterpart.
    And where is Chrysler? They have plans to team up with GE to develop a hybrid. By the time they get one in production, we’ll be flying in Jetson-mobiles.
    American automakers and American consumers are waking up…or will they just go back to sleep?

  • Bryce

    Hmm…..well, here we go again. The Volt was announced about a year ago….not 3. So the retooling of factories to build it or a similar vehicle would either be near completion or about 6 months out. Now I also said in the next sentence that that 12-18 months did involve R&D time for a particular type of vehicle, but only the time to switch production from existing vehicle to another existing vehicle as Ford and GM are doing with their reallocation of resources from trucks and SUVs to small cars and sedans. coupling R&D time of 4-5 years, drawing board to lot can take 5-6 years…..usually.

    As for someone saying Toyota was a lesser automaker, no one here has said that. (I know cuz I have been reading this particular discussion from start to finish) I said in an earlier article that Toyota is doing the same things GM has done because they are introducing larger and beefed up (and less efficient) versions of their TUndra trucks and Sequoia SUVs to take advantage of that market. I believe someone else then later misquoted me and said I thought Toyotas were lesser vehicles. (which I don’t, they are very fine vehicles indeed) Then I guess u saw that and here we are now.

    As for GM being able to use the EV1 as the base for the Volt, u and I both know that that would be a dumb idea. The EV1 used either lead acid or metal hydride batteries, seated only 2 people, and cost $80k+. That is not exactly the best vehicle to base your ground breaking model off of.

    O, and Toyota, along with all other American car companies were fighting the CAFE standards change. They, like GM and others, are a company and will do what they can to produce a vehicle as cheaply as possible. (within reason of course) These standards make hybrids, diesels and turbochargers all the more necesary so that they can now meet the CAFE standards, but they are pricier.

    On that note, I do believe Mr. Lutz has been quoted as to saying that 80% of GM vehicles will be HYbrids by 2020 so as to meet the CAFE standards. Now I don’t know what type of arrangement these hybrids might be, on what vehicles and what type of hybrid system (ie mild or full 2mode)

  • tBay

    To all the GM bashers, General Motors is and has been the number 1 best selling automaker in the country and the WORLD for the past 77 years: that’s saying something. This company doesn’t make “junk” and if they were, why are they the largest and best-selling car company??? I’ll admit (and THEY even admitted) that they were late to the hybrid game. With the Chevy Volt, they’re not just playing “catch-up”, they’re surpassing all of Toyota’s technology and every other automaker as well. They’re going to be the first major player in the new plug-in/electric field and I think that’s fantastic. They were already the first major company to the modern electric car field with the EV1. They were so early, the market wasn’t even ready for it (so they scrapped the entire program). Where was ANYone else??? I think the reason why people bash GM is because of some rough parts in their history. You may have bought one of their bad cars at a bad time. Had problems with past GM vehicles. Whatever. Boo-hoo; get over it. Every automaker has recalls and problems no matter who you are. You’re stuck on the past while GM has fixed these problems and moved on. Respect a great company when you see one. They promised to deliver on the Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric car and they WILL in all aspects; iconic design, unseen fuel economy, and American greatness.

    I’m not going to bash Toyota because frankly I like Toyota’s cars. But before the Prius, Toyota was just another average car company; now everyone thinks they’re the ‘greenest’ and greatest car company. Come off it. They’re not. Comparing them to GM, They have 5 hybrid models across all their brands: So does General Motors. They claim they have 6 models that get over 30mpg: GM has 13. Toyota has NO flexfuel cars on the road and GM has millions already. They’ve both got hydrogen programs though GM’s is more prevalent and wide-scale. And now they’re delivering the Volt ‘electric’ car in 2010 and I don’t know if Toyota is or isn’t releasing another Prius around that time or not; they keep going back on forth on Li-ion technology. GM’s trucks and SUVs are more fuel efficent than the rudimentary ones from Toyota that can’t even crack 20mpg (look it up!) as well! So whose the green company? Toyota with their limited amount of efficient vehicles and programs or GM with their already extensive (and rapidly growing) collection? GM should stand for “Green Motors” because that’s what they are.
    Please somebody, I dare you to argue with me.

  • Jon (UK)

    I’ve got a 9 year old Volvo with 130K+ miles on the clock and would quite like to replace it now. The problem is after following the development of the Volt and other such cars, they sort of make the presently available vehicles seem rather old fashioned and antiquated. Every time a look at a new VW AUDI or BMW, I just have a deep feeling that I don’t want to buy one because the technology is virtually redundant. Even the new VW scirocco which is the sort of car I would like is composed of an engine gearbox and breaking system originating from the 1900’s, and is little more than a further development of a model ‘T’ ford, when compared to an electric hybid car such as the new Volt. So I am just going to keep my old trusty Volvo for a couple more years and save some more money, maybe for this Volt.
    Does anyone else feel the same way?

  • Ross Nicholson

    Just cover the wheel wells, dolts.

  • Bryce

    tBay, everything u cited is completely true, and I have been saying all those things and trying to explain to the people on this site. Trust me though, they will argue with u though. (and usually cite innacurate information and misquote u) Good luck, cuz they will be coming for u….and me. : (

  • KoKO

    Get used to the idea that the Volt will not to be like the Prius. You must get used to the idea that it will be an American designed vehicle. Not everything made in America is no good. Some folks think American products are a automatic loser. You won’t have to buy an American flag decal for your foreign car as many of you do. The decal is probably from China anyway (decal w/lead) and don’t let the kids lick it. We should be extremely happy there will be more improved vehicles market to pick from and continue with the idea of some type of green vehicles becoming more available. The Prius will come down in price for those who want to drive one. But one thing for sure you are being taken advantage of by your friends at Toyota.

  • Jeff

    You are right….I too would not worry about a car that only sold a measly 1.2 million. The Prius will probably stop production next year with Toyota, currently number 1 in worldwide sales, going out of business shortly thereafter. You and your fellow Republicans are smart. Keep posting your in-depth, insightful thoughts.

  • gmluvrdon

    Millions of people stood in line for pet rocks in the 70′s too!

  • Bryce

    mmmm….pet rocks.

  • Dumb Import Owner

    I love how when an American car company steps up to the plate the doofus Jap lovers come whining at full force. Look kids, the Volt will represent a big step towards independence from foreign oil. The copycat engineers from your beloved Toyota/Honda will quickly copy GMs technology and trumpet it as some sort of breakthrough, then you can continue to undermine the American economy and buy your Toyota Amp/Ohm or whatever they choose to call it. The Prius and other hybrids are stopgap measures until hydrogen vehicles are ready for the marketplace.

    Guess who is leading the world in hydrogen vehicles on the road. Yep, GM. Quit your crying and open your eyes.