Comments on: GM Cuts Current Mild Hybrid System, Prepares for Another

By: Kevin Webb

Kevin Webb — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:46:50 +0000

Nobody wants these stupid hybrid cars. They break, they're far more expensive in the long run, you can't pass anyone on the highway, they aren't safe and they cost too much.

I'd rather rollerblade to work on one foot.

KW

By: JohnQuincyPublic

JohnQuincyPublic — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:15:31 +0000

The GM/Daimler/Chrysler/BMW 2-mode system mates two electric motors to a 4-speed automatic transmission, using two clutches to engage or disengage the electrical motors.

As an engineer all I can say is that this setup is an overly-complicated kludge. This increases the part count, with more potential failure points.

Compare that to the Toyota Prius transmission-- Just 22 moving parts, no clutch, no gear-shifting wear-and-tear. That is why Toyota is able to bring their hybrid system cost down to affordable levels while ensuring the reliability of their Hybrid Synergy Drive.

Ironic that the Power Split Device transmission at the heart of the Hybrid Synergy drive was originally developed by the American technology company TRW. How the PSD transmission works: http://www.eahart.com/prius/psd

The only hybrid cars worth buying are those using the Power Split Device transmission-- Hybrids built by Ford (yes, their hybrid system is almost the same as the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive), Toyota, Lexus, and Nissan (who licensed the HSD for use in the Altima Hybrid).

By: Tony

Tony — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:25:44 +0000

TOM:

Why in the world would GM try to get the rights to use Toyota's system when they are supposedly nearing production on a system of their own that would be superior to anything Toyota has in the pipeline?

And if they were going to outsource, why would they go to Toyota when Ford has a superior system already in production in the Fusion Hybrid?

The time to have outsourced would have been before they had invested oodles of money coming up with their own system. The time to have outsourced to Toyota would have been when Toyota had the best offering on the market. Neither of those conditions apply to GM right now.

By: Tom Me

Tom Me — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:20:12 +0000

GM's two mode hybrid system came out of their hybrid bus programs of long ago. It's really for larger vehicles. They use two electric motors.. each optimized for a different speed range. One motor works best at lower speeds, the other at higher. On large vehicles, that's a good tradeoff. It's not clear how well that scales to smaller vehicles... but more importantly, it does cost a lot to integrate two motors, control that, etc. On a large vehicle, this is acceptable, since simply taking a Prius like system, scaling it up, would mean a HUGE battery. The upcoming Vue.. or whatever vehicle that system ends up in.. is a test of scaling it down.

As an engineer, I've always appreciated GM's approach. Hybrids are still in their early stages of deployment. It's still the time to experiment with a variety of systems. GM has the mild, two mode, and the Volt. Almost everyone else has a Prius style solution (although there are a couple exceptions).

The problem here, IMO, is GM's vision is not long term. Sure, the early hybrids will have limited acceptance, and limited profitability. But, stay the course. Let it stick in peoples minds that there's a Malibu hybrid. Now that they are taking it away, they will have to re-educate everyone that a Malibu hybrid does in fact exist when they re-introduce it. And that will mean... fewer sales than if they just stayed committed to a Malibu hybrid all the way.

By: dgolfer

dgolfer — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:36:10 +0000

The Ford Fusion hybrid blows them all away. Gets 8mpg better than Camry hybrid.

By: Samie

Samie — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:46:05 +0000

Not sure what GM would gain with continuing the two-mode system. Even if you added it to an Aveo. The problem has been marginal mpg’s for the extra 4k-9k price. Upgrading the two-mode may also add more to the price of some GM hybrid vehicles making any gains in mpg irrelevant. I agree GM should lease or quickly develop a full hybrid system to compete with the Insight and Prius. You can offer the Volt but if you don’t add another full hybrid to the line-up you can’t fully capitalize on your new hybrid products. Having a complete line-up is the only way GM is going to survive…

By: chukcha

chukcha — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:33:22 +0000

It’s about time GM focus on the technoilogy that realy matters: the plugin hybrid.

By: jef

jef — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:48:12 +0000

I recently bought a 2009 Malibu. I love this car! I’m getting 32 mpg avg. and have plenty of power. Looked at the hybrid but it was too expensive for the small increase in mileage.
By the way Wampa I’m not a neo-con or a brand loyalist, i traded a nissan for my Malibu.

By: Tom Me

Tom Me — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:43:50 +0000

Geeze... If anything, keep the mild hybrids to have market presence. They need consumers to think of them in a green way. Keep all the current hybrids.. slow or stop production to compensate for low demand. Then, introduce the new hybrids when ready.

Or.. kill the current hybrids. Let environmentally/fuel efficient customers get frustrated with GM... then introduce new systems with that bad karma.. Wow.. GM is so much smarter than me.

By: WompaStompa

WompaStompa — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:33:15 +0000

I firmly believe anything "hybrid" that GM has released to be purely to cash in on the "trend" of hybrid vehicles. If they had attempted to create something matching the Prius or even the HCH, they might not be in the situation they are in now. People are wanting better MPG and more people are waking up to the fact that they should care about the planet. The only people that still buy GM are people are brand loyal or are neo-cons that just don't care about the environment.

As far as the Honda Insight, I am pretty disappointed in what it wound up being, especially considering what the original was. The final MPG numbers on the Insight make me want to go buy a 2010 Prius.