Comments on: California Expected to Approve Landmark EV Rules

By: mousey

mousey — Fri, 11 May 2012 19:13:52 +0000

Okay, I just gotta say, I have my big fat car for a reason, safety against other big fat cars. Gas guzzler or not. I know, call it ignorant. But there is no way I am gonna put my kids in one of these things when learning how to drive and then mastering driving-all of which take time. Zero emissions of not, I guess I am no as altruistic as I should be. Good Article for conversation.

By: tapra1

tapra1 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:24:29 +0000

the ramp up of mandated zero emissions vehicles would begin in 2017 and cover a period through 2025. The rules also allow for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles or other zero emissions technologies. Latest News

By: AP

AP — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:13:06 +0000

JJJSpawn, I think so too. These aren’t as easy questions as some people think.

By: JJJSpawn

JJJSpawn — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:57:15 +0000

AP, those are some good points. I think we actually agree. ☻

By: AP

AP — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:57:52 +0000

JJJSpawn, it's going to be interesting, but a long battle. It will take 40 years or more to convert power plants over, unless we want to scrap ones just made (big $).

Also, if California changes over from CO2-producing but cheap sources of energy, to non-polluting expensive ones, you will see California's electric rates double, triple, or ???

In a state that's already in debt and may need to raise taxes or cut spending, adding that much to consumer costs may make everyone move out.

By: JJJSpawn

JJJSpawn — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 11:16:55 +0000

AP, just want to say then that the next clean air act that Cali enacts needs to address how power for homes is produced, rather methane, bio, fuel cell or what have you. Cali is ahead of the US Congress but everything cannot be put under one bill.

By: AP

AP — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:37:10 +0000

JJJSpawn, the Leaf would be "zero-emissions" if it ran on electricity from methane from a trash dump. But 99% of Leafs will be powered in ways that create CO2.

And yes, the supply line should be included for any source of power, a "well-to-wheels" approach.

By: JJJSpawn

JJJSpawn — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:22:52 +0000

Your example is a different system. Would the Leaf be better if it received its power from the methane recovered from my trash at the landfill?

Just asking when you look at IEC cars, does the supply line of gas to the pump count in the CO2 production of the car?

By: AP

AP — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:39:18 +0000

Not counting the power plant in the equation is like saying you don't put trash into the landfill because, the garbage truck is what places it there. But every pound of trash you put into it ends up in the landfill, so yes, you are putting it in the landfill.

Saying we *could* power the car on non-polluting sources doesn't make it so. During the lifetime of the average Leaf, it will cause much CO2 to be produced, from coal and natural gas plants, because that's what will generate power for the next 10-15 years.

By: JJJSpawn

JJJSpawn — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:11:58 +0000

That was not my point. The car maker does not control whether the electrical power is from a coal plant or the hoover dam. You have to look at the system that is being produced.

So if you want to include the coal plant… do you include the supply chain that brings the coal to the plants? What about the machines that pull the coal out of the mine? What about the emission of the vehicles that get the workers to the coal mine? This would have to be included in your theory. The article today about Nissan’s boat.

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/nissans-green-green-car-carrier-nichioh-maru-35927.html

is them trying to shore up the supply line side, but that cannot be fixed in one fell swoop. As far as I know Nissan does not produce coal machines or conveyor belts etc. It is up to each part to take responsibility to make their part better til it is zero emission (or as close as humanly/thermodynamicly possible)