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	<title>Comments on: 108 City MPGe Rating For C-MAX Energi</title>
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	<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/</link>
	<description>Auto alternatives for the 21st century</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 19:24:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: usbseawolf2000</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40846</link>
		<dc:creator>usbseawolf2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the topic of emission, EPA has a site that includes the tailpipe and upstream emission (fuel production for both gasoline and electricity) data on their Beyond Tailpipe Emission site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can punch in your zip code and it&#039;ll tell your greenhouse gas emission in your region and also the national average.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your regional emission from the zip code may vary but the national average for the Volt is 260 gram per mile. A regular Prius emits 222 g/mi while a Prius PHV emits 210 g/mi. That includes everything from drilling oil, refining, transporting, cold engine start emission, etc... You name it. The same goes for electricity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the topic of emission, EPA has a site that includes the tailpipe and upstream emission (fuel production for both gasoline and electricity) data on their Beyond Tailpipe Emission site.</p>
<p>You can punch in your zip code and it&#8217;ll tell your greenhouse gas emission in your region and also the national average.</p>
<p>Your regional emission from the zip code may vary but the national average for the Volt is 260 gram per mile. A regular Prius emits 222 g/mi while a Prius PHV emits 210 g/mi. That includes everything from drilling oil, refining, transporting, cold engine start emission, etc&#8230; You name it. The same goes for electricity.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2" rel="nofollow">http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2</a></p>
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		<title>By: usbseawolf2000</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40845</link>
		<dc:creator>usbseawolf2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Modern Marvel Fan wrote: &quot;Currently, my Volt has about 6,000 mile and 35 gallon used.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How many kWh of electricity did your Volt consumed? Without that, it is impossible to calculate the MPGe you are getting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Modern Marvel Fan wrote: &#8220;Currently, my Volt has about 6,000 mile and 35 gallon used.&#8221;</p>
<p>How many kWh of electricity did your Volt consumed? Without that, it is impossible to calculate the MPGe you are getting.</p>
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		<title>By: usbseawolf2000</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40844</link>
		<dc:creator>usbseawolf2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40844</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Prius PHV use gas, it is 50 MPG (0.2 gal/100mi) and emissions are rated AT-PZEV. When it uses electricity, it is rated 117 MPGe (29kWh/100mi -- more efficient than subcompact i-MIEV and ties with compact Fit EV). Combine both and it is rated 95 MPGe in a midsize with no range anxiety. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
95 MPGe only last for 11 miles so if you commute fits in that range, it&#039;ll be perfect for you. If you can charge at work, 22 miles commute will work too. You still have the 50 MPG gas engine so going over 95 MPGe range will not drag it down as fast as other plugin hybrids.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tailpipe emission comparison of currently available plugin hybrids: &lt;br /&gt;
http://priuschat.com/attachments/2012-plugin-hybrid-exhaust-png.34726/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Prius PHV use gas, it is 50 MPG (0.2 gal/100mi) and emissions are rated AT-PZEV. When it uses electricity, it is rated 117 MPGe (29kWh/100mi &#8212; more efficient than subcompact i-MIEV and ties with compact Fit EV). Combine both and it is rated 95 MPGe in a midsize with no range anxiety. </p>
<p>95 MPGe only last for 11 miles so if you commute fits in that range, it&#8217;ll be perfect for you. If you can charge at work, 22 miles commute will work too. You still have the 50 MPG gas engine so going over 95 MPGe range will not drag it down as fast as other plugin hybrids.</p>
<p>Tailpipe emission comparison of currently available plugin hybrids: <br />
<a href="http://priuschat.com/attachments/2012-plugin-hybrid-exhaust-png.34726/" rel="nofollow">http://priuschat.com/attachments/2012-plugin-hybrid-exhaust-png.34726/</a></p>
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		<title>By: usbseawolf2000</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40843</link>
		<dc:creator>usbseawolf2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@MMF: That&#039;s much better. Volt owners do use gasoline. You use 20% of the miles and on average of all Volt owners, gas is used 39% of the time. It is good to brag about using no gas in certain situation but please do not mislead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MMF: That&#8217;s much better. Volt owners do use gasoline. You use 20% of the miles and on average of all Volt owners, gas is used 39% of the time. It is good to brag about using no gas in certain situation but please do not mislead.</p>
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		<title>By: Modern Marvel Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40842</link>
		<dc:creator>Modern Marvel Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Van wrote: &quot;So if we drive 1000 miles in a month, on average we will rack up 660 EV miles and 340 gas miles in a Volt. But many Volt owners say they burn no gas and go the the filling station less than once per two months.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, you answered your own question with the word &quot;AVERAGE&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
If you pay a visit to the Volt stats. net you will see that many Volt owner rarely use any gas.  Then there are also owners who don&#039;t charge at all.  Some of them are due to lack of charging facility (i.e. rental apt doesn&#039;t allow it).  Those who don&#039;t charge at all is going to do drag out the average a lot just as those who charge a lot.  It all depends on the miles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, my Volt has about 6,000 mile and 35 gallon used.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Van wrote: &#8220;So if we drive 1000 miles in a month, on average we will rack up 660 EV miles and 340 gas miles in a Volt. But many Volt owners say they burn no gas and go the the filling station less than once per two months.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, you answered your own question with the word &#8220;AVERAGE&#8221;.<br />
If you pay a visit to the Volt stats. net you will see that many Volt owner rarely use any gas.  Then there are also owners who don&#8217;t charge at all.  Some of them are due to lack of charging facility (i.e. rental apt doesn&#8217;t allow it).  Those who don&#8217;t charge at all is going to do drag out the average a lot just as those who charge a lot.  It all depends on the miles.</p>
<p>Currently, my Volt has about 6,000 mile and 35 gallon used.</p>
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		<title>By: CharlesF</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40841</link>
		<dc:creator>CharlesF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 03:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Van, I ran the numbers for my girl friend and came up with 15 gallons/month for 1562 miles/month for the Volt.  Her current Gen II Prius uses about 34 gallons for the same trips.  The company she works for has been putting in free chargers when people buy plug ins.  If that happens at her building, her monthly usage drops to just over 10 gallons per month.  That makes the Volt her lowest gasoline usage car with the exception of pure EVs (which would not work for her about 15 times a year).  Using the same techniques including charging at work, for the PIP (10 EV miles and 50 MPG) and C-Max (20 EV miles and 42 MPG guesses) the PIP comes in at 19 gallons/month and the C-Max at 12.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The C-Max has the most room (100/19/43, passenger, cargo, seats down cargo volume cubic feet), followed by the PIP (94/22/40) and the Volt (90/10/18) the least.  My guess is that the C-Max will be the fastest based on power to weight ratios of the regular C-Max hybrid, with the Volt close behind and the PIP left for dead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For everybody I have run the numbers for, the Volt comes out using the least amount of gasoline of the 3 plug ins.  The PIP always comes in last.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It looks like the C-Max Energi should take sales from both the PIP and Volt, with the PIP being the main target.  The C-Max has twice the all EV range of the PIP. The C-Max has a true all EV range.  The C-Max has more passenger room and depending on if the back seats are up or down 3 CF more or less cargo space.  The C-Max will be faster than the PIP.  The C-Max costs less than the PIP.  The PIP does have the best MPGs in hybrid mode, but you must drive it 78 miles before it beats the C-Max and 118 before it beats the Volt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please note that we are guessing at the C-Max&#039;s EV range and MPGs.  For the above I used a 20 mile all EV range and 42 MPG.  For the PIP, I used a 10 mile all EV range, which is a fiction, but it is fair.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Van, I ran the numbers for my girl friend and came up with 15 gallons/month for 1562 miles/month for the Volt.  Her current Gen II Prius uses about 34 gallons for the same trips.  The company she works for has been putting in free chargers when people buy plug ins.  If that happens at her building, her monthly usage drops to just over 10 gallons per month.  That makes the Volt her lowest gasoline usage car with the exception of pure EVs (which would not work for her about 15 times a year).  Using the same techniques including charging at work, for the PIP (10 EV miles and 50 MPG) and C-Max (20 EV miles and 42 MPG guesses) the PIP comes in at 19 gallons/month and the C-Max at 12.</p>
<p>The C-Max has the most room (100/19/43, passenger, cargo, seats down cargo volume cubic feet), followed by the PIP (94/22/40) and the Volt (90/10/18) the least.  My guess is that the C-Max will be the fastest based on power to weight ratios of the regular C-Max hybrid, with the Volt close behind and the PIP left for dead.</p>
<p>For everybody I have run the numbers for, the Volt comes out using the least amount of gasoline of the 3 plug ins.  The PIP always comes in last.</p>
<p>It looks like the C-Max Energi should take sales from both the PIP and Volt, with the PIP being the main target.  The C-Max has twice the all EV range of the PIP. The C-Max has a true all EV range.  The C-Max has more passenger room and depending on if the back seats are up or down 3 CF more or less cargo space.  The C-Max will be faster than the PIP.  The C-Max costs less than the PIP.  The PIP does have the best MPGs in hybrid mode, but you must drive it 78 miles before it beats the C-Max and 118 before it beats the Volt.</p>
<p>Please note that we are guessing at the C-Max&#8217;s EV range and MPGs.  For the above I used a 20 mile all EV range and 42 MPG.  For the PIP, I used a 10 mile all EV range, which is a fiction, but it is fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Van</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40840</link>
		<dc:creator>Van</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So if we drive 1000 miles in a month, on average we will rack up 660 EV miles and 340 gas miles in a Volt.  But many Volt owners say they burn no gas and go the the filling station less than once per two months.  Are they exceptions, fugitives from the law of averages, or is the EPA fuzzy math?  We know the EPA MPGe is a deliberate misrepresentation to make EV cars appear to do better than they do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if we drive 1000 miles in a month, on average we will rack up 660 EV miles and 340 gas miles in a Volt.  But many Volt owners say they burn no gas and go the the filling station less than once per two months.  Are they exceptions, fugitives from the law of averages, or is the EPA fuzzy math?  We know the EPA MPGe is a deliberate misrepresentation to make EV cars appear to do better than they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Modern Marvel Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40839</link>
		<dc:creator>Modern Marvel Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[seawolf wrote: &quot;To those saying that Volt will use no gas.... EPA said on average (statistic predicts), 2013 Volt (38 miles EV range) will use gas on 34% of the miles. Older Volt with 35 miles EV range is 36%. &quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, that is the average.  Many Volt do better and some do worse.  I use 0 gallons during my daily commute.  I am around 80% EV.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Chuck in NJ....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
you wrote: &quot;even with the back up on the Volt many consumers feel as I it still does not cut it with the larger battery..it allows the car too much weight which will kill your Hybrid mode of 37 vs. Prius if u need to its better than Volt at 56 plus....&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, you are comparing the EPA of 37mpg with your so called &quot;personal&quot; MPG?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volt owners have known to get 45 EV miles and get 45 in MPG in extended range.  Prius Plugin is rated 50MPG and only has 6 miles EV miles...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, unless you drive hundreds of miles per day, Volt is still cheaper to operate.   C-Max Energi is also a better choice too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, care to explain why your Prius Plugin FAILED in crash test by losing 1 star from a 5-star rated Prius to a 4 star rated Prius Plugin?  I guess 150 lbs battery &quot;ruined&quot; your safety cage?  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seawolf wrote: &#8220;To those saying that Volt will use no gas&#8230;. EPA said on average (statistic predicts), 2013 Volt (38 miles EV range) will use gas on 34% of the miles. Older Volt with 35 miles EV range is 36%. &#8220;</p>
<p>Well, that is the average.  Many Volt do better and some do worse.  I use 0 gallons during my daily commute.  I am around 80% EV.</p>
<p>
@Chuck in NJ&#8230;.</p>
<p>you wrote: &#8220;even with the back up on the Volt many consumers feel as I it still does not cut it with the larger battery..it allows the car too much weight which will kill your Hybrid mode of 37 vs. Prius if u need to its better than Volt at 56 plus&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, you are comparing the EPA of 37mpg with your so called &#8220;personal&#8221; MPG?</p>
<p>Volt owners have known to get 45 EV miles and get 45 in MPG in extended range.  Prius Plugin is rated 50MPG and only has 6 miles EV miles&#8230;</p>
<p>So, unless you drive hundreds of miles per day, Volt is still cheaper to operate.   C-Max Energi is also a better choice too.</p>
<p>Also, care to explain why your Prius Plugin FAILED in crash test by losing 1 star from a 5-star rated Prius to a 4 star rated Prius Plugin?  I guess 150 lbs battery &#8220;ruined&#8221; your safety cage?  </p>
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		<title>By: Van</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40838</link>
		<dc:creator>Van</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most expect Toyota will offer a larger battery in the future, something in the 8-10 Kwh range.  But to avoid an increase in price, the second generation battery is needed.  Lets say the PHV costs about $5000 more than a comparably equipped Prius.  So the battery, plug and charger add way more than would be expected. Thus the battery price appears to be north of $1000 per kwh.  If the price dropped to $125 per kwh, then the battery would only add about $1300 for 10 or so kwh.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bottom line, the Prius PHV is overpriced at $32,000 and would be competitive with the Ford Energi vehicles if the price drops below $30,000 and the EV range is increased to 20 miles plus.&lt;br /&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most expect Toyota will offer a larger battery in the future, something in the 8-10 Kwh range.  But to avoid an increase in price, the second generation battery is needed.  Lets say the PHV costs about $5000 more than a comparably equipped Prius.  So the battery, plug and charger add way more than would be expected. Thus the battery price appears to be north of $1000 per kwh.  If the price dropped to $125 per kwh, then the battery would only add about $1300 for 10 or so kwh.  </p>
<p>Bottom line, the Prius PHV is overpriced at $32,000 and would be competitive with the Ford Energi vehicles if the price drops below $30,000 and the EV range is increased to 20 miles plus.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck in NJ......</title>
		<link>http://www.hybridcars.com/108-city-mpge-rating-c-max-energi-53858/#comment-40837</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck in NJ......</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 06:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=12740#comment-40837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Plug in Prius just needs to be charged more frequently than the Volt...u do not lose range if u plug the car in more often....Toyota created this vehicle with that in mind..u go much further in Hybrid mode ...over 56 Mpg....i cannot feel comfortable minus the engine...the public is NOT READY for the ALL ELECTRIC vehicle YET...even with the back up on the Volt many consumers feel as I it still does not cut it with the larger battery..it allows the car too much weight which will kill your Hybrid mode of 37 vs. Prius if u need to its better than Volt at 56 plus....its also a big opinion decision....and each consumer thinks his own way....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Plug in Prius just needs to be charged more frequently than the Volt&#8230;u do not lose range if u plug the car in more often&#8230;.Toyota created this vehicle with that in mind..u go much further in Hybrid mode &#8230;over 56 Mpg&#8230;.i cannot feel comfortable minus the engine&#8230;the public is NOT READY for the ALL ELECTRIC vehicle YET&#8230;even with the back up on the Volt many consumers feel as I it still does not cut it with the larger battery..it allows the car too much weight which will kill your Hybrid mode of 37 vs. Prius if u need to its better than Volt at 56 plus&#8230;.its also a big opinion decision&#8230;.and each consumer thinks his own way&#8230;.</p>
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